re: Which trend or advancement is being overlooked by most developers? VIEW POST

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re: My web app doesn't need installing, can be shared with a link, works the same on any device. ..., will break with new browser releases, will have...

Yes you have to keep libraries updated, just like in desktop-land. How accessible is your desktop app? Can a screenreader deal with that? Every cross platform solution (what, Qt, Xamarin or something like that?) looks terrible compared to the web, which pretty much "just works". With no install. We obviously have a difference of opinion here, but the reality is your users are probably on a phone, and they probably won't want to install anything (e.g. dev.to is not a native desktop app. If that's all it was, it would not exist)

Yes you have to keep libraries updated, just like in desktop-land.

And unlike in desktop-land, spreading malware thanks to breached JavaScript on centralized websites is very common these days. You're basically putting your users in danger.

How accessible is your desktop app? Can a screenreader deal with that?

Yup.

Every cross platform solution (...) looks terrible compared to the web

Good cross-platform solutions use the native OS APIs, but I agree that Qt applications usually look like a unicorn had puked on your monitor.

With no install.

Have you tried writing portable software yet?

the reality is your users are probably on a phone

Which can perfectly be covered with Delphi, C#/Xamarin etc.

they probably won't want to install anything

According to my own experiences, your very target audience (let me call them "dumb users" for now :-)) very much will want to install anything. Heck, they even use a Facebook app which is not really more than a headless web browser with Facebook in it.

Xamarin looks hellish, keep it. Your comment about every web app putting "users in danger" is a ridiculous thing to say. Best get off this site eh?

Xamarin looks hellish, keep it.

No, thank you. Not a fan of .NET either.

Best get off this site eh?

I accept your defeat. This discussion ends here. Enjoy your backdoors.

Yes you have to keep libraries updated, just like in desktop-land. How accessible is your desktop app?

You both are talking different niches and hence it gets rather complicated to hear each other.

For to-do list, or even a nifty new code editor, I’d definitely go with the webapp, until it gets to MVP and I decide to support it. I would never sign a contract with a client to promise 10+ years of support of any webapp.

With the desktop application, it’s easy-peasy, there is still a windows 95 application, written by me back in 1995 in Delphi32 for some medical institute, running successfully on Win10. No way it could happen if I decided to go with anything else but native.

That said, my crypto-related stuff, like keys etc are kept in native C application and no shitty JS would ever get a chance to see my private keys. My code editors are vim and VSCode. And I am completely fine with my dev.to client being a headless web, because if it will be screwed up with the next frameworks update, I will simply remove it and forget about it’s existence.

Nowadays it is, unfortunately.

Yep, I agree. I don't think this trend is going to revert anytime soon, at least in home computing.

A friend of mine for example, totally non technical, has been telling me she wants to ditch her Macbook Pro because she doesn't know what to do with it. She bought it two or three years ago and now she uses it mainly to watch TV shows on Netflix :D Her plan is to replace it with an iPad and maybe a keyboard for when she has to type emails or invoices.

If you don't work with a computer most of the stuff you do is through a browser already.

I think the vision of the personal computer that Bill Gates talked about ages ago is being fulfilled by personal smartphones / tables, not by desktop computers. Instead of having a family PC people have personal devices and share things with each other. Nobody looks at old photos taken with the smartphone anyway :D

So, actually, there are not "less people who need actual computers" but "more people who use alternatives". I agree that you won't need a real computer for consuming YouTube, but typing on a touchscreen is a mess. I admit that not everyone wants to type stuff like e-mails.

But we're on DEV, we usually write a lot. :-)

So, actually, there are not "less people who need actual computers" but "more people who use alternatives".

They use alternatives because they don't need them apparently :-)
Keep in mind that most adults have had to deal with a computer in their lives, the massive adoption of smartphones and tablets is a little more than 10 years old, they haven't been around forever. If after 12 years people are happy to use them less, then we must ask ourselves why.

Microsoft has a successful line of portable computers that look like tables when the keyboard is detached.

Apple for example has gotten a lot of flack in the latest years because their focus has been almost completely on phones.

A lot of people are happy with phones or with giant phones with pens or with iPads with keyboards or other combinations. Other people are happy with desktops or laptops. There are a lot more options now and it's a good thing.

It's not like computers have disappeared. They are there, you can buy them, both Macs and PCs. It's just that the "glory days" (in my opinion) are over

Apple for example has gotten a lot of flack in the latest years because their focus has been almost completely on phones.

Apple also sells a good couple of MacBooks though. Although I'm sure that macOS servers usually won't run from phones or laptops...

A lot of people are happy with phones or with giant phones with pens or with iPads with keyboards or other combinations. Other people are happy with desktops or laptops.

I have not said otherwise. But ignoring the second group looks wrong to me, especially since I'm a part of it. ;-) I guess that the tablet hype is over and they will fade into obscurity soon as "phones" grow bigger every six months and Microsoft's "tablets" are actually small convertibles.

Apple also sells a good couple of MacBooks though.

True, that's how powerful their brand is. They can change ports or ship shitty internal keyboards, people will complain for a while, but still buy the product :D

But ignoring the second group looks wrong to me

Agreed, but the second group is not totally ignored. You can still buy desktop apps for pretty much everything. See the App Store

I guess that the tablet hype is over and they will fade into obscurity soon as "phones" grow bigger every six months and Microsoft's "tablets" are actually small convertibles.

I hope they will not forever kill "smaller" phones, there's a limit on how phones can get big. I went to the Apple Store the other day and I can't use the iPhone XS Max with one one, to me that it's already too close to an iPad mini. I would be okay with the size of one of the other new phones but I've read about people complaining because phones are getting too big.

If I were an illustrator I would buy the new iPad pro in a heartbeat for example, but I'm not so it stays on the shelf :D

You can still buy desktop apps for pretty much everything.

Hasn't this discussion started with @ar10642 claiming that this was to be ended because "nobody needed that"? :-)

there's a limit on how phones can get big

Hmm. My first "smart" phone had four inches, my current one has six and I still wonder how I could live with the smaller one. I guess as long as it fits into my pockets, I'm fine. Luckily, I did not need a new one this year just yet.

people complaining because phones are getting too big.

Apple has been the one company that sticked with small screens for much longer than the competitors, so I can understand their overreaction now. I don't know whether I could use a 6.5" "phone" as my daily driver. I haven't tried yet. (But I haven't had an iPhone yet either. Hmm.)

Hasn't this discussion started with @ar10642 claiming that this was to be ended because "nobody needed that"? :-)

Well, "nobody" is probably a hyperbole but I guess in a few years he'll be right ;-)

I guess as long as it fits into my pockets, I'm fine.

That's the limit right there :-) My criteria for now is: can I use this with one hand and can I reach the top of the screen with my thumb?

But I haven't had an iPhone yet either. Hmm.

Well, there are plenty of non-iPhones with huge screens :D The new OnePlus 6T is 6.4"

I guess in a few years he'll be right ;-)

Or I will, claiming that pure tablets will be gone by then. Ha!

can I use this with one hand

I have never used mine with one hand, except for reading the time. I probably use it wrong. :-)

there are plenty of non-iPhones with huge screens :D

My OnePlus 5T - the last good OnePlus device - has 5.99" to be precise enough and I guess my next one may be an iPhone, given that good Android devices become more limited and more expensive every year anyway. But this might be a separate discussion.

I guess my next one may be an iPhone, given that good Android devices become more limited and more expensive every year anyway

Yeah, I think I'm going with an iPhone next. My current phone is a Nexus 5X with a 5.2" inch screen. Premium Androids are not that interesting anymore (maybe except the Google Pixel 3's camera) and I've only had bad experiences with Samsung phones.

But this might be a separate discussion.

yup

That's my point. Desktop is niche now, and for good reasons. If that's your niche, great. But the idea that the rest of us are overlooking something (presumably because we're stupid or something) is false.

Also, I doubt I understand how developers might ever consider iPhone and/or well-branded GAndroid. Are not we supposed to think about privacy and robustness more than about branding, are we?

I am buying Chinese flagships for $200 at most every year, immediately flash them with LineageOS and I could never be happy.

"The rest of you" are probably also in my "niche". You should not speak for everyone.

Are not we supposed to think about privacy and robustness more than about branding, are we?

And in terms of privacy and robustness, Apple's reputation is notably better than Google's as Google makes most of its money with "personalized advertising" and I know of no single Android device that gets official updates five years after its release.

Apple's reputation is notably better than Google's

Correction: Apple pays more attention to that particular aspect and Apple’s lawyers are better trained for this particular aspect.

I know of no single Android device

You don’t hear me. LineageOS. Official updates, including critical ones every week, forever. I tested it on my HTC One, 7 years old. LineageOS based on Android 7 was flashed flawlessly in 10 mins.

Apple pays more attention to that particular aspect

And iOS has been found relatively safe when confronted with the desires of law enforcement.

You don’t hear me. LineageOS.

You don't hear me. LineageOS will void your warranty on most Android devices, it is not an officially supported system on most Android devices. Those which "support" it (OnePlus does it, for example) will still be out of service after a year or two.

Show me one Android device with software updates from its vendor that was made in 2013 and did not make you void your warranty to achieve that.

Show me [...]

Why would I show you anything? Why would I need a warranty if for my whole life I never used it for mobile? I can do the math and void warranty costs nothing (unless your phone manufacturer throttles and makes other nasty things or unless I must use 1Oyo devices.)

Do you need a warranty? Fine. It does not save you a dime, but if you need it, continue feeding Apple and G. No issue.

Well if you change a phone every 12 months and you get lucky then you might never need a warranty yeah.

But other people might need it :D

But other people might need it :D

Nope. Do the math yourself. Buying new phone when the old one gets throttled (let me guess: the latter is NOT a warranty case) is still cheaper in the average than paying your privacy for it.

Even if a phone gets once broken (and this is a warranty case, which is the extremely rare one,) it’s still cheaper to buy the new one instead of overpaying for the warranty for the whole life. Otherwise all the insurance companies would get bankrupt.

The thing is the health insurance makes sense because one usually cannot afford the required surgery. You pay for your patience. The phone is not something one cannot afford. Do the math, it always helps to make decisions.

Even if a phone gets once broken (...) it’s still cheaper to buy the new one

I wish I had your income.

Premium phones are north of 700€ right now, repairs don't usually cost as much. Also most people buy them with subscriptions so they aren't actually shelling the whole phone price up front.

Probably your math holds up with cheaper phones but still, regular people are not going to flash their own phones anytime soon so I feel this argument is a little pointless :-)

I wish I had your income.

If you were reading what I say, before throwing your arguments out, you might have noticed: I entered the thread with mentioning no-names.

Somewhat like this (I clicked the first item in DuckDuckGo search results.

Mine is slightly more expensive, for dual camera, 128G and 8 cores, but it’s still under $300.

Yes, I can afford this once when the phone gets broken by a warranty case (once per our life, actually, in average.)

This is the first link I found at DuckDuckGo that sells phones. BTW, I bought last four of my phones there.

Why would I show you anything?

You claimed that I was wrong. Now you admit that I was right because you misunderstood me. All is fine now. :-)

Do you need a warranty?

I needed one once and I was happy to have one. I'd like to be relatively sure that a device that costs me half a month's worth of money will theoretically be supported until I voluntarily replace it. Even CyanogenMod can't do that.

It does not save you a dime, but if you need it, continue feeding Apple and G.

I fail to understand your relatively rude tone now. Did I hurt you?

Now you admit that I was right because you misunderstood me.
I fail to understand your relatively rude tone now. Did I hurt you?

I fail to understand both how were you right and how my tone is rude.

how were you right

That no Android device has a warranty for officially supported OS updates even remotely as long as iPhones do.

how my tone is rude

I guessed so.

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