DEV Community

Discussion on: HTML is a programming language

Collapse
 
darkwiiplayer profile image
𒎏Wii 🏳️‍⚧️

The main argument against HTML being a programming language: In that case YAML is also a programming language. CSV is also a programming language. Maybe even plain text is a programming language (we use it to represent programs that output static text).

Is there some hard line between C and HTML that would let us clearly distinguish one as "programming" language and the other as "non-programming" language? Not really, at least I haven't found a good one.

The closest thing is probably that in C, Lisp, Haskell, etc. you can implement algorithms, which in HTML you don't. HTML "programs" don't "run" in the physical sense (as in, they're not turned into machine instructions and executed), nor in the conceptual sense (Instructions don't get executed sequentially).

Either way, classifying HTML as a programming language is about as useful as classifying flower gardening as "farming". The whole "gatekeeping" debate is just an extremely dishonest at disqualifying peoples arguments by attributing malice to their position. As long as this is the level on which discussion happens, I can only look at the whole debate with disgust.

Collapse
 
darkwiiplayer profile image
𒎏Wii 🏳️‍⚧️

To expand on the whole "gatekeeping" argument, I find this whole debate absurd all the way from conclusion to premise. Do people who develop HTML somehow miss out on something by not being considered "programmers"?

Community

HTML development has its own subcommunity in the IT world with large overlap with the programming community. There's no hard separation here; many people do both, those who do only one often treat the other as a sort of parallel discipline that's still part of the larger group. There's no "Programmers vs. HTML devs" divide that has to be overcome.

Status

Programming has always been a discipline that requires skill and knowledge. Not everyone can just learn it all the way to becoming an expert, so those who can and do are usually paid well and generally assumed to be smart. This is an image that HTML has yet to achieve, mainly because people tend to think of "building websites" as more of a creative task and forget the very technical aspect of turning a design (often made by completely different people) into an actual website that can be put on the web.

This image problem, however, will not be solved by incorporating HTML into the programming label.


So yea, in conclusion, the whole "gatekeeping" argument doesn't lead us anywhere meaningful. There's no reason why anybody would want to gatekeep, nor any harm done by the distinction.

If people want to call themselves programmers, they can just learn programming, it's that simple. It will even benefit them in their HTML-related work, which can often be automated with a bit of scripting magic.

Collapse
 
stainlessray profile image
stainlessray • Edited

Your entire argument was that it is trivial to determine. That being the case, I wonder why your opinion on that question was included along with said reasoning, in your answer 🤔.

Seems like it matters enough to warrant your default position. The reason people gate this way is to feel special. It's not rational.

The entire web was not built on notation or markdown. The interoperability with other languages (other, not actual), the inability to discover a solution to the need for HTML knowledgeable PROGRAMMERS, suggests it's a pretty important language.

Thread Thread
 
darkwiiplayer profile image
𒎏Wii 🏳️‍⚧️

The reason people gate this way is to feel special.

To me it seems to be the other way around. Most programmers probably know that there's nothing special about being a Programmer™, but there's a constant push from HTML developers that want to be included in the group even though it seems factually wrong to many people, and my suspicion is that they want to feel special. Otherwise, why would they care at all?

And to repeat my point a bit more clearly: Reading a list of reasons why HTML might not be a programming language and reacting by calling that "gatekeeping" is toxic. Any reasonable person will just walk away from such a discussion, as they should, and only a few who argue from emotion will stay behind.