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Discussion on: TypeScript is slow. What can we do about it?

ivanjeremic profile image
Ivan Jeremic

Yeah we know it but the reality is if you want to start using C++ for everything good luck. Also I have no idea why the negativity against wasm you know that the internet (browser) is a place where where amazing software runs not everything can be in app stores or local software. Being in the browser gives you the advantage that you can sit on any device and start working where you left on the other device, SaaS software like monday.com, hootsuite, Figma, or things like CodeSanbox, imagine them being only locally available they would be useless. What I want to say the future is cloud for the most part and the user facing Apps and UI will not be 100 % nativ but the speed will be almost there so end users will never be able to tell.

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

My problem with web is not the concept, but the implementation. At almost every major inflection point along the way the worst possible technical solution presented was the one chosen.

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ivanjeremic profile image
Ivan Jeremic

For me the browser of today feels better than 5 years ago and it keeps improving since I know that browsers exist, What you want is a perfect world how we ship apps and in what language they are written but other then streaming the apps to the user so people use apps on play button like a Netflix video or like a Google Stadia game I can't think of an other solution this way whole operating systems could be streamed to the users and everyone walks around with devices able to open this, and again most likely it will be browser on this devices that are used for this as you can see with Google Stadia so I don't know what the future is but it is for sure not only Native/Local apps

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

Most of the reason that browsers today feel better than 5 years ago is because today's computers have more memory and most phones have a LOT more memory than back then. The fundamentals of how the web works hasn't changed, and today's JavaScript framework du jour will be out of style in five years for another framework that uses even more memory and CPU because both will be even more readily available then.

So how do we fix it? First, we have to educate EVERYBODY on how the web actually works and the costs involved in propping up terrible platforms and frameworks out of the desire to hire the cheapest developers possible (ie. inexperienced and/or naïve). Here's a great case-study that explains how raygun.io improved performance by 2000% by migrating from Node to ASP.Net Core. Businesses need to know this stuff because being able to reduce your server count by 60% has a very big cash-flow and profit impact on your business. This is very, very real and very, very important for the long term health of your company.

And any web-centric view of the world is blind to the fact that apps are far more popular on mobile:

Recent research shows that 90% of their mobile time is spent in apps, and only 10% browsing the rest of the internet. In the ecommerce space, the contrast is even more glaring: mobile app users spend an average 201.8 minutes per month shopping, compared to 10.9 minutes/month for website users.

Additionally, apps generate more conversions, on average 4.1x more than mobile web browsers.

Why is this? User's prefer real apps because they are more immersive, perform better, and can be used offline (depending on purpose of the app).

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ivanjeremic profile image
Ivan Jeremic

We all know these statistics, and listening to them it sounds like the web is dead and there are no jobs and nobody uses it, which is totally not true and it is the opposite, I think there will always be both.

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

You know the stats and ignore them for what purpose? My goal is to educate business owners and executives of the absolute wastefulness of scripting languages for application code on both the client and server. Think about how much electricity is wasted by every unicorn running on node or Ruby....

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ivanjeremic profile image
Ivan Jeremic

C# is in my opinion also a scripting language, and I already told you that this is a myth there a tons of SaaS products running in the browser successful and millions of people use them, I know loosing clients to web devs must hurt but instead of fighting about languages just do your thing and write software how you think it is best. Also my focus is on desktop I don't think you will ever walk into an office and see people have no PCs and only work on smartphones.

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

C# has allowed for native AOT compilation from day 1. Over the years that has gotten better and better, too, with .Net 5.0 even advocating AOT and single-file distribution that requires zero dependencies.

And though your focus may be on desktops, Android already has an active market share that is double that of Windows, then throw iOS in on top of that. And especially on Desktop you can create far more immersive and creative apps with native than with web technologies. The CPU power of desktops tends to mask the deficiencies of JavaScript as long as users don't go nut with browser tabs, but that is rarely the case and users wind up hating web apps and don't understand that it's because they've been given this tool that is fundamentally flawed and it is forced on them out of the laziness of people who would rather pass on the cost and expense of hardware to customers than incur the cost and expense to deliver a quality product.

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ivanjeremic profile image
Ivan Jeremic

I will just say Discord. It grows like crazy and it is likely to become one day number one.

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

Discord is an interesting case. As a website, their service works fine, but their Electron client is a horrible resource hog. In the attachment you can see it launch a separate process for each server you have joined. It does nothing but chat and very poor streaming. It does have a friendly UI, but that is easily replicated with a native app such as Quarrel which start up in a fraction of the time and use less RAM.

Comparison of Discord vs Quarrel