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Discussion on: On lowering the bar

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msmiel profile image
Mavreen Smiel

I did read the original manifesto and he concluded women are less logical (and by extension make poor engineers) because of biological differences. The old myth that women are too emotional, anxious, and unable to cope with the intellectual stress was presented as scientific fact.

I don't buy the men and women have different intellectual strengths because of biology, because it ignores the impact of society and culture has on such things. When I was a little girl, I heard "Video games and computers are for boys. Go play house." I ignored that (mostly) but it has a profound impact. Here's some more history on the subject.

Ultimately, I am worried that my colleagues think I've taken shortcuts or have been let off easy, or slept my way to the top because they do think that. I know they do because I've been told that, repeatedly, throughout my career. The last time I received a comment like that was about 3 weeks ago.

I remember a few weeks ago I saw that Google and a few other big tech companies wanted to "solve" death. I laughed. I laughed because they'd figure out immortality before treating women and minorities like people. Cynical, perhaps, but for the vast majority of people there, diversity is a non-issue. They simply don't care.

And if you're horrified and wondering what you can do, I'll tell you. It's easy and it requires no code or internet connection. Are you ready?

You believe them.

Believe them when they say DudeBro said something inappropriate because the only thing I've heard more than sexist comments are "Are you sure? He's such a nice guy. I've known him for years and he'd never do anything like that."

And if you see or hear inappropriate comments being made, say something.

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davejs profile image
David Leger

I don't think being less logical makes a poor engineer. It makes a different engineer. For example I am terrible at writing algorithms and mediocre at math (logical skills) and despite that I'm still a good engineer. My skills are just different. My product designer says she loves to work with me because I don't just think logically, but I'm empathetic to the needs of the end user. Engineering requires both logical and creative skills which are often hard to find in a single person. That is why non-logical thinkers (both men and women) can and do make great engineers.

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msmiel profile image
Mavreen Smiel

Correct. I was paraphrasing Demore's argument.

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jess profile image
Jess Lee

YES, default to believing them.

"Are you sure? He's such a nice guy. I've known him for years and he'd never do anything like that."

This isn't a workplace experience, but its the same fundamental issue and hits close to home:

One time, my neighbor grabbed my face and tried to kiss me. He didn't succeed because I pushed him away, and he literally ran out of the room. My boyfriend didn't believe me and thought I must have 'misinterpreted' my neighbors actions. He's such a nice guy, and he's my friend. The next day, my neighbor apologized to my boyfriend (not to me, might I add), and that's when he finally believed me.

I really hope it doesn't take experiences like this for the 'good guys' to finally 'get it.'