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Discussion on: Do You Want or Do You Need Windows 11?

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja Author

What is it specifically that you are upset about? Icons in Win11 are already in Win10. The updated setting are a huge improvement. The gaming capabilities are a big upgrade. If those things don't appeal to you, you can be happily supported on Win10 for another four years.

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przemek profile image
Przemyslaw Michalak

Your second sentence is exactly my point. That all changes in win11are already in win10. Just in win10 are optional in 11 you will have to use them. But that's not the point. Let's leave UI dx12 etc.
My point is, that windows has a lot of problems, bugs and missing things. I would expect that win11 gonna sort out some of those problems. Managing apps in windows is horrible, their new terminal or old power shell, both jokes. Notification system, task manager, stupid (latest update) weather forecast, Skype turning on on start of the system without possibility of turning it off. Windows defender and firewall. I can go on whole day what is wrong with win10. And this is what is upsetting for me. Out of all serious problems they have, they decided to refresh UI and release it as a new system...

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja Author • Edited

I'm going to break this down into three groups: I agree, I disagree, and You are Totally Off Base.

I Agree

Managing apps in windows is horrible

True, for non-store apps and for those who won't use WinGet. For store apps, you simply right click the app icon from the start menu and select "Uninstall". Poof, it's gone. WinGet can uninstall any app on the system that was installed via an installer, so you can script uninstalling apps.

I Don't Agree

Notification system

You need to back this up. What is wrong with the notification system?

task manager

What? I mean, seriously, what the hell are you talking about? Task Manager is incredibly effective and even deep links into resource monitor to dig into the minutae of running processes.

stupid (latest update) weather forecast

Is it broken? Are you unable to turn it off?

Skype turning on on start of the system without possibility of turning it off.

Simply not true. You can even uninstall Skype completely.

Windows defender

You need to elaborate. Windows Defender covers a lot of ground. What doesn't work?

firewall.

I can only assume you don't like the UI. I find it both intuitive and effective. Please explain what you find wrong with Windows Firewall.

Out of all serious problems they have, they decided to refresh UI and release it as a new system...

You haven't laid out a case for serious problems. The security changes and Xbox compatibility changes are a definite divergence from status quo Windows 10. They do warrant a new version, especially the security changes because it's a lot harder to sell the CEO on "We must upgrade to Windows 10 XXXX to get better security" than it is "We must upgrade to Windows 11 to get better security, AND when we're done every computere will have cryptographically secure firmware and OS files".

You Are Totally Off Base

their new terminal or old power shell, both jokes.

You're going to have to back up these claims. Windows Terminal is extremely good. It lacks for nothing and performs well. Windows PowerShell has been phenomenal since day 1, and PowerShell 7 is my default command line in Linux. If I need to use bash then I simply /bin/bash the script from pwsh. Programming Bash is an inconsistent hodge-podge of crappy syntax combined inconsistent system commands that require memorizing minutae that eats too much time. PowerShell has autocompltion for the flags and arguments of each command as well as enumerated values for arguments. It has built-in help that is way easier to use than man and adding the -Online flag opens your browser to the full documentation. Scripting and debugging PowerShell 7 is a seamless experience with VSCode, plus you can invoke Dotnet Core binaries from your scripts and use the return objects natively.

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przemek profile image
Przemyslaw Michalak

I wrote very loooong comment answering to all your points, just to delete it. Let's take a step back in our discussion.

The reason why I deleted everything is simple. We can pick on singular apps, functions, services or even scripts in Windows, but my beef with Microsoft is the whole experience altogether. So please, try to look at everything from my point of view rather than splitting everything into singular points.

I'm running my own start-up so I'm using Windows for 2 main tasks:

-In the office to develop my product
-at home for entertainment

In the office every minute counts and every single update causing me to slow down is very expensive for both, my company and my mental health. At home on the other hand I'm turning on the PC to chill.

Both of those tasks are constantly destroyed by Windows, it's updates and the way how they trying to force on the users their new features.

Additional Microsoft services (as Skype for example) are the first thing I'm getting rid off after Windows installation, just to find out that after one of the magic updates they gonna appear back, not only in the system, but they also set themselves to autostart. Can I uninstall it or turn it off again? Probably, but I don't want to do annoying tasks over and over because Windows tries to make me happy.

Updates and how Windows is managing them is another joke. Many times I couldn't use my laptop at work because Windows decided to update itself without my knowledge or permission. Latest story - my laptop reset itself with a bluescreen, after it boot itself up Windows decided without any question to push an update. I wasted an hour on downloading/installing everything it needed, just to find out that Windows automatically installed new drivers for my graphics card (along with weather forecast and other crap I didn't ask for). And problem is that the newest drivers for my graphics has an issue with hyper-v which I used for docker (yeah, I'm not using hyper-v anymore). The issue was, that the Windows thought I had 10 screens plugged in to my laptop. No way of turning them off, no way of changing their settings, just apps showing on screens that I don't have. The only solution for it, is to find and reinstall deprecated drivers that are not on official Intel website anymore. And that is waste of even more time. And please again. Don't split it to the points that it might be the fault of Intel, docker or whoever. The problem is in my experience with Windows that is doing whatever it likes whenever it wants. Simple question 'Do you want to update your device' would be enough to make me happy.

Can I turn off the updates, their apps I don't want to use or services? Well some yes, some not. But the point is, that every time they introduce new thing I am the one who has to learn how to turn it off/on etc. Weather forecast for example can't be turned off by right clicking on it or by going to it's settings (there are only 'tips and ^^%^ tricks'). And again please don't split it to the points, that's again example of Windows forcing me to be happy with their new feature. Same applies to all other apps they constantly introducing, instead of fixing serious bugs in the system.

And serious bugs are there. And I think I can safely assume we all agree on it. It is normal. In such a complex system their have to be. But that's my point. I'm lately running with a serious bug in the file explorer and Microsoft instead of fixing this, introducing me to their news in the new button with the weather!

The point is I can go on with the problems like this, and we can keep commenting back and forth what is broken and what is great. But my comment is not about singular things, it's about Windows all together constantly making my life miserable.

My conclusion - together with growing popularity of Android and people swapping PCs to phones Microsoft decided to adjust to the market and make it's system simpler for John Doe, but somewhere on the road it lost it's own personality.
Those days computers are more and more often used by specialists, since more and more entertainment is handled by phones, smart TVs and other than PC devices. And making Windows to be a mixture of system easy to use for John Doe and flexible for specialists it's becoming a mix of garbage. When I'm working on my product I'm not willing to see idiotic notifications from browser, weather forecasts or adjusting my work schedule to Windows updates. Can I set all of it up for my needs? Yeah, after countless hours of looking for each function in the settings, but after next update everything gonna reset and go back to the settings that Windows want me to use, not me. So for me that's the biggest problem with Windows. It doesn't know anymore if it's a product for every day user? for tablets? for phones? for specialist? for touch screens? for normal screens? for multiple screens? maybe for games? or maybe just for everything? If the last is the case, as we all know -Being good at everything is the same as being great at nothing.

So this is what I would call a new Windows 11. Taking the step back, settling by Microsoft who the Windows is dedicated for and pushing changes towards those people. Not taking singular features from iOS and Android, mixing it with classic experience of Windows dedicated for desktop and trying to give a birth to Immaculate Conception.

And that's obviously my point of view. And probably it won't get a lot of acceptance from the community, because it looks, like most of the people are very happy with Windows as it is.

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja Author • Edited

To sum up, Windows Updates are your main problem with Windows, and because of that the things you aren't fond of get amplified.

There is good news. Microsoft allows you to configure your Windows Updates on the Advanced pages in settings.

When you enable update notifications you can tell Windows exactly when to install updates. Also, you can pause updates for any period of time. It's all in your control.

EDIT: TIL that DEV refuses to display images fromn OneDrive.

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przemek profile image
Przemyslaw Michalak

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Unfortunately their update manager is also not working in my favour. Several another long stories like one when I blocked updates on specific Wi-Fi just to one day open the laptop on the airport and see that Windows connected to the new network started updating itself. It just seems that Windows is no go for me and I would be more than happy to simply switch to Linux, but not all programs I need are possible to install there (on my private PC I also sometimes play games). So I just became very miserable about Windows :sad:
I simply miss the times when I was setting up my OS as I like and everything was exactly the same from installation till the next format of the hard drive :sad:

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja Author

I understand your feelings, but you irritation is misplaced, IMO. Microsoft does not want the expense and marketing headaches that comes with patch Tuesday. Unfortunately they have no choice because of people installing crap that they shouldn't. The idea of not modifying your system is a naive relic from before computers became socialized through networking. Apple does a lot to keep updates quiet on iOS and MacOS. Android largely ignores security holes and just takes down vulnerable apps. Both approaches are born out of walled garden app stores. For some odd rwason, the same people who complain about updates being so invasive also refuse to use apps from the Microsoft Store.

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przemek profile image
Przemyslaw Michalak

'The idea of not modifying your system is a naive relic' - guilty.
'For some odd rwason, the same people who complain about updates being so invasive also refuse to use apps from the Microsoft Store.' - also guilty 😂