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re: Has Stack Overflow Become An Antipattern? VIEW POST

re: Joel Spolsky stepped down as CEO shortly after the new Code of Conduct was rolled out. I wonder if he saw how little the CoC changed things, and qu...

It's not that hard to fit the CEO shoes of SOF.
You just need to hear people, learn what a human needs. When you start rushing after the code of conduct, start meeting every time and every second on the little things, you get lost of it. Like, grow bigger. Stop complaining, stop downvoting, stop nudging people about every little bit and they'll ge attracted to your site. Take for example. You know how many of these things happened for me here at the beginning? They stopped (alas tge things). Everyone forgot about it. Result? They're getting traffic, people having fun, everyone wants to live.
Stackoverflow? You ask question and just wanna upload a meme, of Usama Bin Laden "That's why I bomb people." It creeps me out how they behave. Seriously.

As someone whose job description is CEO (as in "responsibilities", not "paycheck), it's not as easy as it sounds. People think management is the easiest thing in the world: like you said, "just hear people," but the difficulty comes when everyone has different views, and they're all shouting over each other...which is exactly what StackOverflow Meta is most of the time.

Running something as big as StackOverflow takes a solid understanding of programmer culture, human psychology and sociology, and communication. None of those subjects are particularly cut-and-dry. You try things, discover they don't work, and then adjust your approach. Over and over.

DEV is amazing, and I've been incredibly blessed to have been involved pretty deeply as a member somewhat early on. I was invited to be one of the first community moderators (an honor I still haven't wrapped my head around), so I've been a part of a number of discussions about site policies. It isn't simple. The tremendous amount of discussion, consideration, and experimentation that has gone into getting DEV to this point is mind-boggling. I have massive respect for @ben , @jess , and @michaeltharrington ! Their jobs are not easy.

With all that said, I think the fact StackOverflow got this bad shows that Spolsky and the rest of the leadership missed some major red flags. I don't know why, nor will I try to guess. But I can understand why Spolsky stepped down. He has no idea how to dig them out of the hole they're in, and in fact, doing so may be utterly impossible at this point.

Jason, thank you so much for your brief reply. It's nice and pleasent to have a talk with you.

See, the problem in perspective. I respect Ben and Jess and all others. But they're not wkrking hard, they're pretty much having fun. You can see it from as what the site act like what it looks like, what and how people behave and work here.
Stackoverflow was a technical challange for them, they didn't want to lead people.
The nice things did not co-exist from the root. People who disbehave disbehaved there from the very beginning.
Every work is hard, but it's a mere how you look at it. You might be washing toilet,dishes,windows,cars and you will be enjoying. The day you stop beliving in the good and start complaining to yourself, you kill your inner child and start harming others. It's not a must way of going through, but as ceo/as dish washer, at both you'll have to be aware you need to be naive and believing, cause this what life is for.
Look how it all begin in sof, they wanted war. They got it. The day they want to wake up, they can wipe all the dirt out.

You forget, Spolsky and Atwood were having fun too. They didn't want war, they wanted a healthy, fun, vibrant community. But they failed to recognize that if they automatically linked "smart" and "powerful" in this industry, they'd wind up with all the antisocial egotists having the moderator tools. They forgot everything Weinberg ever taught us!

You can have fun, but that doesn't nullify the fact you're still doing hard work. It's not a matter of complaining. Coding is hard, but I love it. Making a decent apple pie is hard, but I love it (just made one this afternoon). To pretend it's easy doesn't help anyone. Everything is easy to the person who isn't doing it.

I think @ben and @jess would say that, yes, running DEV is hard work. Nothing saying it isn't fun most of the time.

Yeah, perhaps easy is not the right word combination. But having fun on a hard work is relieving.
I'll need to learn what you said in your first part, I'm totally off of that. But thank you for a nice talk. :)

Thank you too!

Civility. It's one of the things that makes DEV such a darn nice place!

Yeah. Just imagine how the above discussion would end if it were happening on SO. :-D :-O :-X

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