C was awesome back in the 80s when it first became super popular.. we really enjoyed it back then. But we also enjoyed being able to move to real OO languages in the late 90s.
I myself think Smalltalk outdoes any language in existence today, so called "modern" languages are sad imitations that are overly complex (yes even Python and Ruby) and still not as powerful. But I guess I'm in the minority.
if you think you're in the minority, hold my beer:
C is showing it's age and may not be the language with all the bells and whistles programmers have been convinced are the greatest things since sliced bread, but the gist of my comment remains...
if web development was centered around systems programming rather than the scripting nightmare it is today, C would suit it perfectly and you wouldn't need the dozens of convoluted "technologies" that have to work together to get anything done.
i'm not a huge fan of C and we do need something better. many have tried, some have gotten close and others are in the works. i just don't think it's any of the ones you mentioned. and i certainly wouldn't touch smalltalk with a ten foot pole :)
the right tool for the right job? sure. if you spill water, you'll need to invent a sponge to soak up the mess faster, but that old rag can still do the job.
Gentoo Linux and VIM worshiper, C developer, network protocol dissector implementer,socket/network programmer, recently entered the embedded world, hater of buzzwords and made up titles
I'm a huge fan of C and use it exclusively these days, though I still like your comment due to good arguments. I hear that Rust might be an adequate replacement for C/C++.
yeah.. some early internet companies started out with C (like Amazon for example).. they quickly saw the light.
If you can do better, by all means, prove us wrong.
But you're kind of going against computer language research, and modern software engineering practices.
Gentoo Linux and VIM worshiper, C developer, network protocol dissector implementer,socket/network programmer, recently entered the embedded world, hater of buzzwords and made up titles
I don't know why is everyone so afraid of C. I am currently in embedded world where almost everything is done in C and haven't noticed any issues or complaints if proper procedures are followed. Of course, it's not as easy as languages which are hardware agnostic, but given the fast paced evolution of hardware, you can know run Node.js apps even on Single Board Computers like Raspberry for example.
There will always be fans and groupies of every possible language out there, that's just how human mind works, and affiliating yourself with your viewpoint proponents is our inherent nature.
I am still convinced that C is not going anywhere, and concede your arguments against it. Although, I don't see anyone rewriting back-end software to any other language any time soon, maybe never.
In my opinion, C will stay here until NLP (Natural Language Processing) finally evolves enough to understand semantics, and from that point on, the mindset of every developer will evolve into something we cannot even conceive at this point in time. Whether the evolution of NLP will overcome this obstacle and get us closer to creating AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), this is yet to be seen.
We can talk about the present, but I wanted to give you my take on how the future might look. AI may seem powerful now, but it still has a long way to go. Image recognition aside, human languages are still misunderstood and impossible for a machine to understand without the proper understanding of semantics.
I may have gone a tad too far with this; my intention was to mitigate the potential tensions between opposing language proponents :)
Gentoo Linux and VIM worshiper, C developer, network protocol dissector implementer,socket/network programmer, recently entered the embedded world, hater of buzzwords and made up titles
Gentoo Linux and VIM worshiper, C developer, network protocol dissector implementer,socket/network programmer, recently entered the embedded world, hater of buzzwords and made up titles
i don't think rust is an adequate replacement for c/c++. it's a language with a very specific purpose.
it's great for writing security software, or software that needs to be proved. i think rust is more in competition with ada. and i kind of prefer ada.
rust just doesn't have the ... agility that C has.
modern software engineering practices gave us the likes of facebook and twitter. both of which have a garbage code base.
just because something manages to steam along as long as you throw the latest bit of hardware at it doesn't mean it's good engineering.
Gentoo Linux and VIM worshiper, C developer, network protocol dissector implementer,socket/network programmer, recently entered the embedded world, hater of buzzwords and made up titles
I think I mentioned that once. Just because we have more powerful hardware doesn't mean we have to write less efficient software. Nobody cares about optimisations and memory efficiency these days. I used to play great games on my Atari ST with 1Mb of RAM. It sounds like scifi today, to have only 1Mb of memory.
should have figured.
i started out on the c64, then on to the amiga. in my experience, people who started out with those early systems grew to appreciate hardware limitations and getting every last bit of processing power out of them.
now with everything practically being emulated and a dozen CPUs living in each computer, programmers don't care about resources or efficiency. as long as they can roll something out quickly and it functions relatively fast.
Gentoo Linux and VIM worshiper, C developer, network protocol dissector implementer,socket/network programmer, recently entered the embedded world, hater of buzzwords and made up titles
C was awesome back in the 80s when it first became super popular.. we really enjoyed it back then. But we also enjoyed being able to move to real OO languages in the late 90s.
I myself think Smalltalk outdoes any language in existence today, so called "modern" languages are sad imitations that are overly complex (yes even Python and Ruby) and still not as powerful. But I guess I'm in the minority.
if you think you're in the minority, hold my beer:
C is showing it's age and may not be the language with all the bells and whistles programmers have been convinced are the greatest things since sliced bread, but the gist of my comment remains...
if web development was centered around systems programming rather than the scripting nightmare it is today, C would suit it perfectly and you wouldn't need the dozens of convoluted "technologies" that have to work together to get anything done.
i'm not a huge fan of C and we do need something better. many have tried, some have gotten close and others are in the works. i just don't think it's any of the ones you mentioned. and i certainly wouldn't touch smalltalk with a ten foot pole :)
the right tool for the right job? sure. if you spill water, you'll need to invent a sponge to soak up the mess faster, but that old rag can still do the job.
I'm a huge fan of C and use it exclusively these days, though I still like your comment due to good arguments. I hear that Rust might be an adequate replacement for C/C++.
Androthi,
yeah.. some early internet companies started out with C (like Amazon for example).. they quickly saw the light.
If you can do better, by all means, prove us wrong.
But you're kind of going against computer language research, and modern software engineering practices.
I don't know why is everyone so afraid of
C. I am currently in embedded world where almost everything is done in C and haven't noticed any issues or complaints if proper procedures are followed. Of course, it's not as easy as languages which are hardware agnostic, but given the fast paced evolution of hardware, you can know runNode.jsapps even onSingle Board ComputerslikeRaspberryfor example.There will always be fans and groupies of every possible language out there, that's just how human mind works, and affiliating yourself with your viewpoint proponents is our inherent nature.
I am still convinced that C is not going anywhere, and concede your arguments against it. Although, I don't see anyone rewriting
back-endsoftware to any other language any time soon, maybe never.In my opinion, C will stay here until
NLP(Natural Language Processing) finally evolves enough to understandsemantics, and from that point on, the mindset of every developer will evolve into something we cannot even conceive at this point in time. Whether the evolution of NLP will overcome this obstacle and get us closer to creatingAGI(Artificial General Intelligence), this is yet to be seen.We can talk about the present, but I wanted to give you my take on how the future might look. AI may seem powerful now, but it still has a long way to go. Image recognition aside, human languages are still misunderstood and impossible for a machine to understand without the proper understanding of semantics.
I may have gone a tad too far with this; my intention was to mitigate the potential tensions between opposing language proponents :)
I have no problem with C.. I programmed for over a decade in C and C++.
But its not for web programming.. and its not ideal for all scenarios.
I'm not afraid of it at all.
I just think there are better tools for the job.
Of course it's not for web. Maybe with Web Assembly but I think Rust will take over in that specific area, maybe, who knows.
to be fair, C can't be included in a list of "languages that stretch your brain"
it can't be included because C is the granddaddy standard measure. all the other languages are compared to it.
for my list of languages that stretch your brain i would have:
Number 5 will not only stretch it, but probably also displace it 😄
i don't think rust is an adequate replacement for c/c++. it's a language with a very specific purpose.
it's great for writing security software, or software that needs to be proved. i think rust is more in competition with ada. and i kind of prefer ada.
rust just doesn't have the ... agility that C has.
modern software engineering practices gave us the likes of facebook and twitter. both of which have a garbage code base.
just because something manages to steam along as long as you throw the latest bit of hardware at it doesn't mean it's good engineering.
I think I mentioned that once. Just because we have more powerful hardware doesn't mean we have to write less efficient software. Nobody cares about optimisations and memory efficiency these days. I used to play great games on my Atari ST with 1Mb of RAM. It sounds like scifi today, to have only 1Mb of memory.
should have figured.
i started out on the c64, then on to the amiga. in my experience, people who started out with those early systems grew to appreciate hardware limitations and getting every last bit of processing power out of them.
now with everything practically being emulated and a dozen CPUs living in each computer, programmers don't care about resources or efficiency. as long as they can roll something out quickly and it functions relatively fast.
The good old days:
The evolution of a programmer
Damir Franusic ・ Jul 24 ・ 6 min read