I think you've misunderstood me. I never said not to wear dressers or skirts, nor did I imply that. I've known of several young aspiring professionals, men and women, who would dress in deliberately provocative ways — extremely short shorts or skin-tight pants, overly revealing shirts or blouses — for professional meetings. This is addressing that.
If you like dresses or skirts (assuming they're not deliberately provocative), by all means, wear them! Be you! Find your look.
I even said your outfit doesn't have to look like mine. I can't speak to dresses and skirts because I don't wear them. (And, ironically, if I'd suggested dresses and skirts outright in my article, someone else would be crawling down my throat because I was insinuating that women have to wear dresses.) That's why I described my outfit, and left everything else vague.
As to LinkedIn, I thought I included it! Maybe in the wrong place, though? Twitter can be good too. However, I have not needed either as much as I've needed email and phone for professional contacts, and in fact, got by without either being set up for professional correspondence for a number of years.
Hi Jason, thank you so much for replying my comment.
I was very shocked just by the way you used the expression 'seeking a romantic partner', maybe it's not the best expression since many women wear provocative clothes and aren't searching anything, they just want to wear them.
Also, I feel you're insinuating (maybe specifically) that women would use their outfit to get attention and that they should better 'show off their skills', and I don't think that's appropiate neither.
Indeed though, those clothes aren't mean for professional meetings, maybe the only important point here for boys and girls would be:
Don't dress up for an interview as if you were going in a date or to the club.
As per LinkedIn or Twitter, I think they're important if you actually want to grow a 'contacts community' around you, but I understand that's depending in your field/job.
I think 'seeking a romantic partner' is not that different from 'going on a date or to the club', so I don't see how one is insulting and the other isn't? In any case, I was not implying that it was the goal.
My phasing was a reminder that we should be aware of what messages we send to others by how we dress. No one wants to be ogled during a business meeting, and while the decision to ogle is solely on the other person, we can do a lot ourselves not to encourage it. Again, this isn't just women I'm talking about. I think we can agree it wouldn't be appropriate for a guy to go shirtless to a board meeting, because it's distracting and unprofessional. The same goes for provocative outfits on either gender.
This doesn't just apply to interviews. It applies to networking events, client meetings, business conferences, and the list goes on.
I feel you're insinuating (maybe specifically) that women would use their outfit to get attention and that they should better 'show off their skills', and I don't think that's appropiate neither.
Again, that is something I neither stated nor implied. I think you're expecting me to imply certain things, and so you may be reading those in. (Standard human glitch. We all do that.)
The point I made is literally just don't dress in a way that distracts from your skills. I don't know, or particularly care, what the intention is. The intention actually doesn't even factor in. The fact is, provocative dress does run the risk of distracting even the most well-meaning other person, simply because it was designed for that specific purpose. We need to be mindful of that effect on people.
This is NOT excusing jerks who ogle and hit on people in professional settings. One is never "asking to be hit on" — that is crap. With that said, one should pay attention to what effect their outfit is likely to have on the ability of others to pay attention to what they're saying.
With all that, Jason, I just wanted to do a reminder that many people see 'provocative' what it's just a normal outfit so we just must be careful when we talk about 'sending messages with our clothes' because even if we don't mean to, we don't know other's standards to what it's provocative or not. By previous messages I think we both share the same definition for it, but again, not everyone...
That's why I was trying to get attention since an expression like 'seeking for a romantic partner' feels out of place. Maybe it's because the language barrier (I'm not native english speaker) but for me it is a very vulgar expression (if I try to fit it in my native language), but something more neutral like 'going to the club/in a date' sounds better to me.
Thank you for the time and patience to answer me.
And refering my first message besides those 2 statements, the overall article was very good and I'm proudly taking some of your tips.
"Seeking a romantic partner" is not actually vulgar in English; I'm deliberately being vague about orientation, dating methods, etc, lest someone else get insulted for not being included. "Going to the club/on a date" would leave out many other scenarios. Being as vague and general as possible.
I agree that some people have weird ideas about what is "provocative", but you'll notice I never even used that term in the article! Again...
Get noticed for your skills and ideas, not because your outfit would make Grandma Miller turn scarlet.
If your own culture would consider what you're wearing to be shockingly inappropriate, think twice. You can't cater to what everyone else thinks, but you can check yourself. (The reference to "Grandma Miller" is simply because grandmothers are often the ones who remind us of proper behavior in our own culture.)
For further actions, you may consider blocking this person and/or reporting abuse
We're a place where coders share, stay up-to-date and grow their careers.
Hi Desiré,
I think you've misunderstood me. I never said not to wear dressers or skirts, nor did I imply that. I've known of several young aspiring professionals, men and women, who would dress in deliberately provocative ways — extremely short shorts or skin-tight pants, overly revealing shirts or blouses — for professional meetings. This is addressing that.
If you like dresses or skirts (assuming they're not deliberately provocative), by all means, wear them! Be you! Find your look.
I even said your outfit doesn't have to look like mine. I can't speak to dresses and skirts because I don't wear them. (And, ironically, if I'd suggested dresses and skirts outright in my article, someone else would be crawling down my throat because I was insinuating that women have to wear dresses.) That's why I described my outfit, and left everything else vague.
As to LinkedIn, I thought I included it! Maybe in the wrong place, though? Twitter can be good too. However, I have not needed either as much as I've needed email and phone for professional contacts, and in fact, got by without either being set up for professional correspondence for a number of years.
Hi Jason, thank you so much for replying my comment.
I was very shocked just by the way you used the expression 'seeking a romantic partner', maybe it's not the best expression since many women wear provocative clothes and aren't searching anything, they just want to wear them.
Also, I feel you're insinuating (maybe specifically) that women would use their outfit to get attention and that they should better 'show off their skills', and I don't think that's appropiate neither.
Indeed though, those clothes aren't mean for professional meetings, maybe the only important point here for boys and girls would be:
Don't dress up for an interview as if you were going in a date or to the club.
As per LinkedIn or Twitter, I think they're important if you actually want to grow a 'contacts community' around you, but I understand that's depending in your field/job.
Hi Desiré,
I think 'seeking a romantic partner' is not that different from 'going on a date or to the club', so I don't see how one is insulting and the other isn't? In any case, I was not implying that it was the goal.
My phasing was a reminder that we should be aware of what messages we send to others by how we dress. No one wants to be ogled during a business meeting, and while the decision to ogle is solely on the other person, we can do a lot ourselves not to encourage it. Again, this isn't just women I'm talking about. I think we can agree it wouldn't be appropriate for a guy to go shirtless to a board meeting, because it's distracting and unprofessional. The same goes for provocative outfits on either gender.
This doesn't just apply to interviews. It applies to networking events, client meetings, business conferences, and the list goes on.
Again, that is something I neither stated nor implied. I think you're expecting me to imply certain things, and so you may be reading those in. (Standard human glitch. We all do that.)
The point I made is literally just don't dress in a way that distracts from your skills. I don't know, or particularly care, what the intention is. The intention actually doesn't even factor in. The fact is, provocative dress does run the risk of distracting even the most well-meaning other person, simply because it was designed for that specific purpose. We need to be mindful of that effect on people.
This is NOT excusing jerks who ogle and hit on people in professional settings. One is never "asking to be hit on" — that is crap. With that said, one should pay attention to what effect their outfit is likely to have on the ability of others to pay attention to what they're saying.
That is all. Nothing to read into it.
With all that, Jason, I just wanted to do a reminder that many people see 'provocative' what it's just a normal outfit so we just must be careful when we talk about 'sending messages with our clothes' because even if we don't mean to, we don't know other's standards to what it's provocative or not. By previous messages I think we both share the same definition for it, but again, not everyone...
That's why I was trying to get attention since an expression like 'seeking for a romantic partner' feels out of place. Maybe it's because the language barrier (I'm not native english speaker) but for me it is a very vulgar expression (if I try to fit it in my native language), but something more neutral like 'going to the club/in a date' sounds better to me.
Thank you for the time and patience to answer me.
And refering my first message besides those 2 statements, the overall article was very good and I'm proudly taking some of your tips.
Hi Desiré,
Glad we're on the same page.
"Seeking a romantic partner" is not actually vulgar in English; I'm deliberately being vague about orientation, dating methods, etc, lest someone else get insulted for not being included. "Going to the club/on a date" would leave out many other scenarios. Being as vague and general as possible.
I agree that some people have weird ideas about what is "provocative", but you'll notice I never even used that term in the article! Again...
If your own culture would consider what you're wearing to be shockingly inappropriate, think twice. You can't cater to what everyone else thinks, but you can check yourself. (The reference to "Grandma Miller" is simply because grandmothers are often the ones who remind us of proper behavior in our own culture.)