As per State Of Js survey 2018 that polls 20000 javascript devs around the word, the share of Ember has reduced from 6.3% in 2016 to 5% in 2018. 2018.stateofjs.com/front-end-frame...
As per Google Trends data for US, search queries for ember dropped from a score of 70-80 in jan 2017 to just 40-50 in Jan 2019. Data for Worldwide shows a even steeper fall. trends.google.com/trends/explore?d...
Oh I'm aware. But, you see there is a problem with both of those techniques of data collection. They are required to have the groups of people manually do things.... Whether it be fill out a survey, or search something on Google... It requires human interaction, and therefore cannot be a reliable source for capturing 'the full, complete picture'.
Npm stats are totally automatic and would be more representative of actual usage, as npm is the central source for where people get their dependencies.
It seems we are talking different metrics. The list is based on % of javascript developers who are currently using the framework, interested to use it in future or not.
Ember may have seen a rise in number of users as you indicated but that doesn't necessarily equate to higher % share. All other top frameworks are also growing their user base(some at a faster rate). That's why the statistics used for the article is based on % share. Other frameworks like React, Vue, Angular and Preact! are growing at a decent rate.
StateOfJs is quite reliable in my opinion. It is the world's largest survey of JavaScript devs in the world that covers almost all major countries. It correctly predicted for last 2 years the meteoric rise of React to top, Vue gaining popularity and Angular losing its flair or Next.js gaining interest in 2018.
Also the report had Preact framework at rank 4. I disn't include it on purpose because it is too similar to react(almost a flavor of react) and i wanted to keep the list a little more diverse. But you can get a pretty good idea how accurate StateOfJS survey is by checking out Preact NPM package weekly downloads - 107,147.
But as you rightly said StateofJs survey can only reflect a broad trend not absolute numbers.
user-sourced data is flawed, even though it's accurate when you squint at it, it's still flawed.
Not arguing about the correctness of anything aside from the ember stats, because npm shows the exact opposite of the StateOfJS survey, which means that people using ember don't typically take JS surveys.
Thanks for the heads up, i corrected the ember package. I was wondering if you can quote any source that indicates ember is increasing its user share(not user base...all rival frameworks are doing it)? I based the ranking on couple of articles one of which was - medium.com/@vlascik/honest-look-at... This was written in 2018 may. Stats have changed but not the momentum imo. Is ember growing at the same pace as other top 3 frameworks or new competition like preact.
React obvs the most popular still, cause it's what's being taught at bootcamps, and it's gotten to the point where non-tech people know about it, but this just goes to show how different imperfect surveys are with automatic data collection from stats from the single source of truth (the npm registry)
Yeah i watched the video after Preston mentioned it in his comments. Looks like NPM stats and StateOfJs are saying the opposite. That might probably change when 2019 results are out. But i do concede, NPM stats are undoubtedly a reliable source. By the end of 2019 it would be clear if Ember can sustain the newfound growth or not. The more i researched on this after discussion with Preston i keep getting contradictory analysis. But ember showing resurgence in early 2018 looks indelible. I should tweak the article to mention that fact.
I would be quite careful using the State Of JS as a source just in general. It's not very representative and if you want a better discussion about that I would recommend that you listen to this Podcast: changelog.com/jsparty/54 where they do a better job than I ever could explaining the issues 👍
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As per State Of Js survey 2018 that polls 20000 javascript devs around the word, the share of Ember has reduced from 6.3% in 2016 to 5% in 2018.
2018.stateofjs.com/front-end-frame...
As per Google Trends data for US, search queries for ember dropped from a score of 70-80 in jan 2017 to just 40-50 in Jan 2019. Data for Worldwide shows a even steeper fall.
trends.google.com/trends/explore?d...
Oh I'm aware. But, you see there is a problem with both of those techniques of data collection. They are required to have the groups of people manually do things.... Whether it be fill out a survey, or search something on Google... It requires human interaction, and therefore cannot be a reliable source for capturing 'the full, complete picture'.
Npm stats are totally automatic and would be more representative of actual usage, as npm is the central source for where people get their dependencies.
With that said, here is a screenshot of part of the npm report: twitter.com/nullvoxpopuli/status/1...
It seems we are talking different metrics. The list is based on % of javascript developers who are currently using the framework, interested to use it in future or not.
Ember may have seen a rise in number of users as you indicated but that doesn't necessarily equate to higher % share. All other top frameworks are also growing their user base(some at a faster rate). That's why the statistics used for the article is based on % share. Other frameworks like React, Vue, Angular and Preact! are growing at a decent rate.
On NPM, Ember is clocking 113,764(ember-cli) weekly downloads and its graph has stagnated a little - npmjs.com/package/ember-cli
Compare this with weekly downloads of React(5,335,501) and Vue(767,907) both registering an upward graph. npmjs.com/package/react npmjs.com/package/vue
StateOfJs is quite reliable in my opinion. It is the world's largest survey of JavaScript devs in the world that covers almost all major countries. It correctly predicted for last 2 years the meteoric rise of React to top, Vue gaining popularity and Angular losing its flair or Next.js gaining interest in 2018.
Also the report had Preact framework at rank 4. I disn't include it on purpose because it is too similar to react(almost a flavor of react) and i wanted to keep the list a little more diverse. But you can get a pretty good idea how accurate StateOfJS survey is by checking out Preact NPM package weekly downloads - 107,147.
But as you rightly said StateofJs survey can only reflect a broad trend not absolute numbers.
that is the wrong ember package.
this is what you want:
user-sourced data is flawed, even though it's accurate when you squint at it, it's still flawed.
Not arguing about the correctness of anything aside from the ember stats, because npm shows the exact opposite of the StateOfJS survey, which means that people using ember don't typically take JS surveys.
:)
Thanks for the heads up, i corrected the ember package. I was wondering if you can quote any source that indicates ember is increasing its user share(not user base...all rival frameworks are doing it)? I based the ranking on couple of articles one of which was - medium.com/@vlascik/honest-look-at... This was written in 2018 may. Stats have changed but not the momentum imo. Is ember growing at the same pace as other top 3 frameworks or new competition like preact.
ember-cli-babel (used in ember apps and addons):
i.imgur.com/oJDOJkw.png
vue
i.imgur.com/Snz93vL.png
react
i.imgur.com/RitXIox.png
they are all much closer than the StateOfJS says.
React obvs the most popular still, cause it's what's being taught at bootcamps, and it's gotten to the point where non-tech people know about it, but this just goes to show how different imperfect surveys are with automatic data collection from stats from the single source of truth (the npm registry)
I think the better source to quote is Laurie Voss, CTO of npm, giving a speech at JSConf US specifically saying that Ember is having a resurgence 😂
Here is the link: youtu.be/mSQh0gcDXkc?t=1237
I included the time in the link but I would highly recommend watching the whole video 🎉
Yeah i watched the video after Preston mentioned it in his comments. Looks like NPM stats and StateOfJs are saying the opposite. That might probably change when 2019 results are out. But i do concede, NPM stats are undoubtedly a reliable source. By the end of 2019 it would be clear if Ember can sustain the newfound growth or not. The more i researched on this after discussion with Preston i keep getting contradictory analysis. But ember showing resurgence in early 2018 looks indelible. I should tweak the article to mention that fact.
I would be quite careful using the State Of JS as a source just in general. It's not very representative and if you want a better discussion about that I would recommend that you listen to this Podcast: changelog.com/jsparty/54 where they do a better job than I ever could explaining the issues 👍