"Writing code" with GPT or other similar is like going to the gym and having a robot do all the exercises. What do you gain? Very little. It baffles me why any dev would want to work this way? Do you not enjoy the mental stimulation of coding and solving things yourself? Isn't that why you got into this field?
Don't get me wrong, I see value in AI based tools to assist you (autocompleting based on your previous code & project codebase etc.) - I've been using TabNine almost since it existed.
I also see the attraction in building this kind of tool - I get it, it's interesting tech and you're making it do interesting things. I enjoy playing with new toys too.
Using it to carry out 95% of the tasks that I really like doing though? No thanks. That would be job satisfaction and enjoyment straight down the drain.
I founded AWW which had 1.5M MAU and was acquired by Miro in 2021. Now I'm working on making software development autonomous - https://github.com/Pythagora-io/gpt-pilot
Hm, yea, I see your point. I definitely enjoy working on this. In terms of why would anyone use this - imagine, you can build a full blown app in 1 week. Imagine, you can ship a new feature every day.
This kind of workflow might be worrying since none of us is used to it but software development will change drastically in the upcoming years. Whether it will be something like GPT Pilot or something else, we'll see, but we definitely won't work like we do today. I think of it like people used to have control over the memory allocation. Today, you almost never think about that. There are memory leaks from time to time but that's so rare that you don't worry about memory anymore.
I think of it like people used to have control over the memory allocation. Today, you almost never think about that. There are memory leaks from time to time but that's so rare that you don't worry about memory anymore.
Unfortunately, it's not rare at all - and the fact that a mentality has developed whereby almost no-one cares about resource usage has gotten software quality and development to the dire place that it is in now. Developers still have control over how they use resources - most are just blissfully unaware of anything in this area, and are oblivious to the fact there are even problems (or that their own actions may be creating said problems)
This kind of generative AI driven workflow is worrying because overall it will only accelerate the decline in quality of upcoming developers, and will essentially turn a lot of us into code reviewers for the generated code (which is often of dubious quality). There will also be a shrinking pool of people who can actually sensibly review this code, due to the increasing shortage of competency created by over-reliance on these technologies.
Overall innovation and original work will also be stifled, as all the good quality, interesting work will be buried under an avalanche of mediocre 'content' (in this case, apps that are 'functional' but likely poorly understood by the people that built them). This phenomenon is visible everywhere (DEV.to being a prime example... there used to be mainly good quality content on here) - and is ruining things in so many areas at an alarming rate.
We're told this is all fine though, because the 'business' guys love this stuff as it is made quickly and cheaply.
I wish I knew how to stop the rot, but it seems like a futile war against $$$
I founded AWW which had 1.5M MAU and was acquired by Miro in 2021. Now I'm working on making software development autonomous - https://github.com/Pythagora-io/gpt-pilot
I agree with you in a decline of developers who can create high quality code. I'm not sure how will that play out since GPT Pilot does need a developer to be present. I think that kind of a change is on a long term horizon - 10, 20 years and who knows what will happen by then. Maybe we get to AGI and the whole world turns upside down.
But you do make good points. I guess we'll see what the future holds.
I think a tool such as GPT Pilot changes the game, but it still requires skill. An unskilled person will use GPT Pilot to incrementally build a codebase that becomes harder and harder to understand and maintain. The human in the loop still matters (until we reach the point where it no longer matters, but that might take a while).
There is more than one type of coffee maker. I like pure espresso coffee, others like decaf, some like Late's and others like light roast. One coffee maker can do all of that, but there are coffee makers that just make one type of coffee.
As engineers we need to both specialize and build coffee makers. If an all in one coffee maker is required, then you build an all in one coffee maker, but if you need to specialize in espresso coffee makers, then you can do that too.
Using AI to build coffee makers still lets me "enjoy the mental stimulation of coding and solving things yourself" because I still have to tell AI what I want my coffee to taste like. I'm still the architect of the end result.
I'm just a lot more efficient building coffee makers.
So... machines are things that make work easier. And gyms are places humans go to voluntarily do unproductive work to restructure our tissue as biological organisms to a better condition for more work later. ...Weird analogy you're crafting there.
Why use AI to write software? Because we have many problems that require a lot of inexpensive labor thrown at them to solve. What about that means the work is not a constructive kind because the big metal plates just fall back where they were when you stop applying kinetic energy and relocate them? If we were building a water tower I wouldn't instruct an AI helping such that "and then once you get the water up there just slowly return it to where it originally was and we'll move on to radio towers to end the day so we're fresh for 'suspension bridge day' tomorrow"...?
Apps written through generative AI are not now and never were an intended solution for some overblown "dumbbell average altitude above sea level" crisis, any more than weight lifting was ever a proposed solution to this "help wanted: lifting metric tons of plastic" sign we put up right before the Pacific Ocean ruining the view. But if nobody's going to pick up the garbage for us I guess I can resist the urge to look down on a robot laborer written for this purpose that gets written on my behalf for free? And I'm for sure not ragging on him when he's done for his totally unswolled gains after all that time trying to bulk with like no protein formula in his routine.
I believe you got it wrong. The idea was that the AI should not be writing 95% of the code, thus reusing already existing in the internet quality-declining codebase but instead it should fill in the gaps for repetitive and inexpensive work.
That's exactly why gpt, phind, GitHub copilot shine among the developers, because they provide good boilerplates, debugging help and short code-snippets to be reviewed and reused. It's like a stack-overflow replacement. But I'd not trust AI software to take over the whole process, rather chunks of it that can be steadily monitored.
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Impressive stuff. However...
"Writing code" with GPT or other similar is like going to the gym and having a robot do all the exercises. What do you gain? Very little. It baffles me why any dev would want to work this way? Do you not enjoy the mental stimulation of coding and solving things yourself? Isn't that why you got into this field?
Don't get me wrong, I see value in AI based tools to assist you (autocompleting based on your previous code & project codebase etc.) - I've been using TabNine almost since it existed.
I also see the attraction in building this kind of tool - I get it, it's interesting tech and you're making it do interesting things. I enjoy playing with new toys too.
Using it to carry out 95% of the tasks that I really like doing though? No thanks. That would be job satisfaction and enjoyment straight down the drain.
Hm, yea, I see your point. I definitely enjoy working on this. In terms of why would anyone use this - imagine, you can build a full blown app in 1 week. Imagine, you can ship a new feature every day.
This kind of workflow might be worrying since none of us is used to it but software development will change drastically in the upcoming years. Whether it will be something like GPT Pilot or something else, we'll see, but we definitely won't work like we do today. I think of it like people used to have control over the memory allocation. Today, you almost never think about that. There are memory leaks from time to time but that's so rare that you don't worry about memory anymore.
Unfortunately, it's not rare at all - and the fact that a mentality has developed whereby almost no-one cares about resource usage has gotten software quality and development to the dire place that it is in now. Developers still have control over how they use resources - most are just blissfully unaware of anything in this area, and are oblivious to the fact there are even problems (or that their own actions may be creating said problems)
This kind of generative AI driven workflow is worrying because overall it will only accelerate the decline in quality of upcoming developers, and will essentially turn a lot of us into code reviewers for the generated code (which is often of dubious quality). There will also be a shrinking pool of people who can actually sensibly review this code, due to the increasing shortage of competency created by over-reliance on these technologies.
Overall innovation and original work will also be stifled, as all the good quality, interesting work will be buried under an avalanche of mediocre 'content' (in this case, apps that are 'functional' but likely poorly understood by the people that built them). This phenomenon is visible everywhere (DEV.to being a prime example... there used to be mainly good quality content on here) - and is ruining things in so many areas at an alarming rate.
We're told this is all fine though, because the 'business' guys love this stuff as it is made quickly and cheaply.
I wish I knew how to stop the rot, but it seems like a futile war against $$$
I agree with you in a decline of developers who can create high quality code. I'm not sure how will that play out since GPT Pilot does need a developer to be present. I think that kind of a change is on a long term horizon - 10, 20 years and who knows what will happen by then. Maybe we get to AGI and the whole world turns upside down.
But you do make good points. I guess we'll see what the future holds.
I think a tool such as GPT Pilot changes the game, but it still requires skill. An unskilled person will use GPT Pilot to incrementally build a codebase that becomes harder and harder to understand and maintain. The human in the loop still matters (until we reach the point where it no longer matters, but that might take a while).
More like having a robot to rack the weights, do almost reliable spotting, so that you can focus on the "workout".
Hello, yes I also think it helps here and there, but I have become a final developer Weill I love to do it myself and code
There is more than one type of coffee maker. I like pure espresso coffee, others like decaf, some like Late's and others like light roast. One coffee maker can do all of that, but there are coffee makers that just make one type of coffee.
As engineers we need to both specialize and build coffee makers. If an all in one coffee maker is required, then you build an all in one coffee maker, but if you need to specialize in espresso coffee makers, then you can do that too.
Using AI to build coffee makers still lets me "enjoy the mental stimulation of coding and solving things yourself" because I still have to tell AI what I want my coffee to taste like. I'm still the architect of the end result.
I'm just a lot more efficient building coffee makers.
So... machines are things that make work easier. And gyms are places humans go to voluntarily do unproductive work to restructure our tissue as biological organisms to a better condition for more work later. ...Weird analogy you're crafting there.
Why use AI to write software? Because we have many problems that require a lot of inexpensive labor thrown at them to solve. What about that means the work is not a constructive kind because the big metal plates just fall back where they were when you stop applying kinetic energy and relocate them? If we were building a water tower I wouldn't instruct an AI helping such that "and then once you get the water up there just slowly return it to where it originally was and we'll move on to radio towers to end the day so we're fresh for 'suspension bridge day' tomorrow"...?
Apps written through generative AI are not now and never were an intended solution for some overblown "dumbbell average altitude above sea level" crisis, any more than weight lifting was ever a proposed solution to this "help wanted: lifting metric tons of plastic" sign we put up right before the Pacific Ocean ruining the view. But if nobody's going to pick up the garbage for us I guess I can resist the urge to look down on a robot laborer written for this purpose that gets written on my behalf for free? And I'm for sure not ragging on him when he's done for his totally unswolled gains after all that time trying to bulk with like no protein formula in his routine.
I believe you got it wrong. The idea was that the AI should not be writing 95% of the code, thus reusing already existing in the internet quality-declining codebase but instead it should fill in the gaps for repetitive and inexpensive work.
That's exactly why gpt, phind, GitHub copilot shine among the developers, because they provide good boilerplates, debugging help and short code-snippets to be reviewed and reused. It's like a stack-overflow replacement. But I'd not trust AI software to take over the whole process, rather chunks of it that can be steadily monitored.