Can we talk about tech plz, the last place that many of us want politics is in engineering, I'm afraid of having my field destroyed, you start changing the language then you want to change the rules, then you wanna to control everything and everyone....
Tech is inherently political though, you can't separate the two. You're afraid of having our field destroyed by politics, while people out there are afraid of having their life destroyed by our field.
There's so much racist, sexist, transphobic and inaccessible software out there, elections are decided on social media, and tech is being used more and more for surveillance, criminal sentencing, health care, etc. All of that is politics.
The field itself has nothing to do with politics, is a scientific field, what you're talking about is the application of the field, this is a separate discussion, plz explain to me what changing a word only for PR have to do with "the practical dev"
Science is, and has always been, political. Read about Henrietta Lacks, read about experimentation in concentration camps, or phrenology. All of those were "just science" in their times. Tech is no different. It's political. You're just going to have to accept that.
Secondly, this site is all about discussing practical, real-world applications of engineering. That's what "practical" means in "the practical dev".
It's not just "changing a word" - it's acknowledging that people in tech might be uncomfortable with that word, even if the origin isn't from "master/slave".
Finally, let's talk about this:
I'm afraid of having my field destroyed, you start changing the language then you want to change the rules, then you wanna to control everything and everyone....
Language changes. All the time. It's a key, defining part of language. Rules change. Society changes. It's not about control. It's about how we build and adapt the system so that everyone experiences the maximum possible comfort, not just those with the most power and influence.
In addition to what's already been said, I'd recommend the following books 😊 They're really insightful when it comes to understanding how tech affects society, with examples of what has gone wrong or can go wrong.
Politics is about opinions and the only reason why you're ok with this is because is in line with YOUR opinion, Imagine if catholics and conservatives started making posts in this communitity would you be ok with it ? besides you do realize that people use this PR move to gain power not only that but in this case IT"S ONLY A PR MOVE, VIRTUAL SIGNALING BULLSHIT , I rarely see any black person advocating for these changes, my grandfather was a slave, an actual slave i"m feel disgust for people(mostly white folks but others too) using our history and our suffering to gain notoriety in the community, and in this case it's only that as people already point out in the comments, I'm not gonna respond anymore because I have REAL things to do things that REALLY matter, thanks for the responses though I'm gonna read it later and I hope you guys make a effort to see and consider these points next time
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A Freelance DevOps doing container stuff and automating unhealthy amounts of software.
Need something automated or containerized? Feel free to hit me up :)
And all of your statement is whataboutism.
Everything I read the past couple of weeks about this topic is "but what about X?".
It's sickening to be frank.
Where is the inherent politics in
windows
Java
SMTP
All of these are considered tech, so go ahead, give it your best shot, tell me their inherent political background, I'll gladly wait.
How about you accept the fact that we are talking about engineering tools?
Let me hammer this one home, maybe it sticks this time, Tools have no political opinion, people do.
I've had this discussion quite a few times, noone had solid arguments as to why this benefits anyone.
I'm pretty sure I know what's coming next, so please, surprise me for once.
I'm not necessarily in favour of all the wild renamings, but as to the politics in all these things: they are made by people, for people. That's the politics in them: if you have people, you have politics.
A Freelance DevOps doing container stuff and automating unhealthy amounts of software.
Need something automated or containerized? Feel free to hit me up :)
That didn't answer anything I'm afraid. It's just another blanket statement.
Consider this situation.
If I make a chair for you, this chair is now political, because, as per your statement:
they are made by people, for people. That's the politics in them: if you have people, you have politics
So what's political about this chair now?
Now let's expand this situation.
I call it the "Master Chair" and carve a triforce into it as an Hommage to zelda.
It has master in it's name now. Still political? This chair is obviously not your master, so it can't be a reference to slavery, right?
Does this comparison feel stupid to you? Welcome in my shoes.
You see where I am getting at? Context. Word + Context = Meaning. If you don't know the context, you can only speculate, and that is where the madness starts. Like this topic for example.
Noone but the creator knows the context as to why something is.
Everyone else's "understood meaning" is just fabrication until proven.
My point is that if people are involved, there will be politics, because people have opinions, backgrounds and agendas which generally only partially overlap.
In that regard, a spherical chair in a vacuum will be apolitical, but an actual chair made by people for people, can very well be made from rainforest wood, by slave or sweatshop labor, be 'picked out by me on my first day so why is he now sitting in it', or e.g. be so modern/kitsch/classic/... as to abhorrent for polite company. It's silly, I know, but that's people for you. So unless you'd want to excise people from everything, politics is something you'll have accept (or rant and rate against, if that's your opinion/background/agenda).
I hope you see that point of view, even if you disagree with it. If not, I'll leave to practicing politics on your own.
A Freelance DevOps doing container stuff and automating unhealthy amounts of software.
Need something automated or containerized? Feel free to hit me up :)
You know, if you agree with me, you just have to say it. Spelling it out in different words doesn't really further the discussion.
It's silly, I know, but that's people for you.
That's people. Not chairs, nor gits, or any other tool. Technology is not political, people are.
So unless you'd want to excise people from everything, politics is something you'll have accept
No, since there is context involved and absolutely needed. Not everything "has to be accepted". Framing things as bad because of people, ends in the madness we are going through right now. Someone whines, others chime in, everyone gets on the blame-train and all of a sudden git is connected to slavery and master needs to get renamed. Queue fanfares now?
What property has changed, now that git uses a different branch name, that makes git "apolitical" now? Git is still made by people, so in your words, it still has to be political, right?
What needs to change now to make it "perfect"?
I hope you see that point of view, even if you disagree with it. If not, I'll leave to practicing politics on your own.
I try to understand, truthfully, but as of yet, there was no solid point made why this is needed. Only redirects and whataboutism. That is the pinnacle of political discussions.
I think it is fine to agree to disagree this time.
// , “It is not so important to be serious as it is to be serious about the important things. The monkey wears an expression of seriousness... but the monkey is serious because he itches."(No/No)
Can we talk about tech plz, the last place that many of us want politics is in engineering, I'm afraid of having my field destroyed, you start changing the language then you want to change the rules, then you wanna to control everything and everyone....
Tech is inherently political though, you can't separate the two. You're afraid of having our field destroyed by politics, while people out there are afraid of having their life destroyed by our field.
There's so much racist, sexist, transphobic and inaccessible software out there, elections are decided on social media, and tech is being used more and more for surveillance, criminal sentencing, health care, etc. All of that is politics.
The field itself has nothing to do with politics, is a scientific field, what you're talking about is the application of the field, this is a separate discussion, plz explain to me what changing a word only for PR have to do with "the practical dev"
A few things:
Science is, and has always been, political. Read about Henrietta Lacks, read about experimentation in concentration camps, or phrenology. All of those were "just science" in their times. Tech is no different. It's political. You're just going to have to accept that.
Secondly, this site is all about discussing practical, real-world applications of engineering. That's what "practical" means in "the practical dev".
It's not just "changing a word" - it's acknowledging that people in tech might be uncomfortable with that word, even if the origin isn't from "master/slave".
Finally, let's talk about this:
Language changes. All the time. It's a key, defining part of language. Rules change. Society changes. It's not about control. It's about how we build and adapt the system so that everyone experiences the maximum possible comfort, not just those with the most power and influence.
In addition to what's already been said, I'd recommend the following books 😊 They're really insightful when it comes to understanding how tech affects society, with examples of what has gone wrong or can go wrong.
Also articles:
Politics is about opinions and the only reason why you're ok with this is because is in line with YOUR opinion, Imagine if catholics and conservatives started making posts in this communitity would you be ok with it ? besides you do realize that people use this PR move to gain power not only that but in this case IT"S ONLY A PR MOVE, VIRTUAL SIGNALING BULLSHIT , I rarely see any black person advocating for these changes, my grandfather was a slave, an actual slave i"m feel disgust for people(mostly white folks but others too) using our history and our suffering to gain notoriety in the community, and in this case it's only that as people already point out in the comments, I'm not gonna respond anymore because I have REAL things to do things that REALLY matter, thanks for the responses though I'm gonna read it later and I hope you guys make a effort to see and consider these points next time
And all of your statement is whataboutism.
Everything I read the past couple of weeks about this topic is "but what about X?".
It's sickening to be frank.
Where is the inherent politics in
All of these are considered tech, so go ahead, give it your best shot, tell me their inherent political background, I'll gladly wait.
How about you accept the fact that we are talking about engineering tools?
Let me hammer this one home, maybe it sticks this time, Tools have no political opinion, people do.
I've had this discussion quite a few times, noone had solid arguments as to why this benefits anyone.
I'm pretty sure I know what's coming next, so please, surprise me for once.
I'm not necessarily in favour of all the wild renamings, but as to the politics in all these things: they are made by people, for people. That's the politics in them: if you have people, you have politics.
That didn't answer anything I'm afraid. It's just another blanket statement.
Consider this situation.
If I make a chair for you, this chair is now political, because, as per your statement:
So what's political about this chair now?
Now let's expand this situation.
I call it the "Master Chair" and carve a triforce into it as an Hommage to zelda.
It has master in it's name now. Still political? This chair is obviously not your master, so it can't be a reference to slavery, right?
Does this comparison feel stupid to you? Welcome in my shoes.
You see where I am getting at? Context. Word + Context = Meaning. If you don't know the context, you can only speculate, and that is where the madness starts. Like this topic for example.
Noone but the creator knows the context as to why something is.
Everyone else's "understood meaning" is just fabrication until proven.
My point is that if people are involved, there will be politics, because people have opinions, backgrounds and agendas which generally only partially overlap.
In that regard, a spherical chair in a vacuum will be apolitical, but an actual chair made by people for people, can very well be made from rainforest wood, by slave or sweatshop labor, be 'picked out by me on my first day so why is he now sitting in it', or e.g. be so modern/kitsch/classic/... as to abhorrent for polite company. It's silly, I know, but that's people for you. So unless you'd want to excise people from everything, politics is something you'll have accept (or rant and rate against, if that's your opinion/background/agenda).
I hope you see that point of view, even if you disagree with it. If not, I'll leave to practicing politics on your own.
You know, if you agree with me, you just have to say it. Spelling it out in different words doesn't really further the discussion.
That's people. Not chairs, nor gits, or any other tool. Technology is not political, people are.
No, since there is context involved and absolutely needed. Not everything "has to be accepted". Framing things as bad because of people, ends in the madness we are going through right now. Someone whines, others chime in, everyone gets on the blame-train and all of a sudden git is connected to slavery and master needs to get renamed. Queue fanfares now?
What property has changed, now that git uses a different branch name, that makes git "apolitical" now? Git is still made by people, so in your words, it still has to be political, right?
What needs to change now to make it "perfect"?
I try to understand, truthfully, but as of yet, there was no solid point made why this is needed. Only redirects and whataboutism. That is the pinnacle of political discussions.
I think it is fine to agree to disagree this time.
This your attempt to separate tech from the people that make the tech, you can't have the tech without the people. They both go hand in hand.
I'm just gonna raise my hand here and say that I've been that guy.