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Discussion on: Create an accessible dropdown navigation

 
lkopacz profile image
Lindsey Kopacz

After talking with blind users (IE the ones who use screenreaders most), they tell me they prefer HTML5 and add ARIA in afterward if more context is needed.

Sometimes manual testing I learn that it's not always mandatory, but if someone is visually impaired is telling me it's not mandatory, I am going to listen to them.

A lot of times ARIA isn't mandatory, it just adds in extra context when things aren't super clear. HTML5 is built to be accessible out of the box, it's when we create advanced features is when we need ARIA.

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equinusocio profile image
Mattia Astorino • Edited

Wait :). They aren’t mandatory when you don’t need to provide more informations. But if use for example a nav element as tab widget you must tell to SR which element is selected. And you can do that through aria-states and roles. These are design patterns defined inside the WCAG guidelines and we must follow them to be WCAG AA(A) compliant.

Another example is when you have an interactive element without content (and this is not an advanced feature), you need to provide the aria-label attribute to describe the action to SR.

In a multilevel menu (pure semantic html) you must tell elements relationship to SR otherwise users won’t know where they are... even in this case you should use aria attributes and roles to avoid the UI pollution.

Btw good job with this article. 👍🏻

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rachlivero profile image
Rachel Olivero

I think any blanket statement that ARIA attributes are required is dangerous. For example, saying that ARIA is required on a form field where a element is already correctly implemented is at best redundant work for the developer, and possibly results in extraneous verbosity for the screen reader user. (Trust me, as a screen reader user, I don't want more speech than I need when I'm trying to work efficiently.) While there is definitely a place for ARIA, and a site-wide nav menu that implements full arrow-key navigation would definitely benefit from this enhancement, ARIA is not required in all situations.

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equinusocio profile image
Mattia Astorino • Edited

I just said that aria attributes are mandatory because you can't provide informations to SR (when obviously there is the correct situation) in other ways. You MUST use them to provide additional and useful informations, you can't avoid to use them in such situations.

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lkopacz profile image
Lindsey Kopacz

I think you should listen to the person who uses a screenreader daily.....

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equinusocio profile image
Mattia Astorino

I do. Please don't be arrogant because you don't know how i work and what i do daily. I'm just telling that there are official specs, guidelines, certifications that we must follow.

To close this ridiculous aggresion, i say again nice article. Bye.

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lkopacz profile image
Lindsey Kopacz

I talked to her and she told me where I could improve with ARIA. She asserted that from her experience as a daily screen reader user that saying they are mandatory is a bit dangerous. That's not saying any of us disagree with your assertion. I also find you're being kinda aggressive by stating that us explaining our experience is aggressive.

Not sure how me asking you to listen to her is arrogant on my part. But bye, I guess?

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equinusocio profile image
Mattia Astorino • Edited

It’s arrogant and aggressive saying that i should “talk” to who use screen readers for real.. supposing that I’m not already doing it and it wasn’t a question. I never said we must use aria-attributes everywhere. Peace and love.

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theworstdev profile image
Kurt Kemple

"Aria attributes are mandatory to support screen readers. Using semantic tags is not enough" sounds like you're saying we have to use aria attributes everywhere. It's pretty arrogant to make such blanket statements.

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maxwell_dev profile image
Max Antonucci

Recommending you listen to people who regularly use screen readers, and likely have more knowledge and experience to add to ours, isn't arrogant or aggressive. It's a reasonable suggestion and a way to be more empathetic as a developer. Calling that "ridiculous" seems more ridiculous to me.

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equinusocio profile image
Mattia Astorino • Edited

No Kurtis Kemple. Sounds like if you need to provide useful informations to SR you need (are mandatory) aria widgets, states and attributes because there aren’t other ways to do that. It’s so hard to understand? I think they just misunderstood my words without asking what i was meaning.

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ben profile image
Ben Halpern

Hey can we all cool it here folks?

As an outsider to this conversation I definitely feel like people are talking past each other.

Thanks a lot.

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equinusocio profile image
Mattia Astorino • Edited

Yeah. Sorry, it was my fault because i was not so clear with my previous messages (🤔).