After years of scoffing at talk of prejudice in the information technology field -- as a white male with good hair --, I'm starting to call prejudi...
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Great article, as a tech journalist (and not a developer) I love talking to older tech people are they generally simply more articulate and better at explaining things. They've often taught tech (either formally or informally and they thus bring fantastic communication skills to interviews etc.
Anorher reality of getting older that I'd like to share is career change. I jumped careers at an older age after moving countries and finding my previous role (running an environmental charity) unsuitable.
As a relatively new journalist I decided to focus on IoT (with a smattering of AI, med tech etc) and I did things like attending conferences and meetups, podcasts and webinars, reading whitepapers etc. My first few interviews I had no idea and no doubt sounded highly incompetent but I persisted. After a while I felt able to offer commentary and opinions, not just reporting per se. I now write for two publications, am an in-house journo for an IoT company in Shenzhen and do other bits and pieces of copywriting. I'm far from rich but I prove that it is possible to get jobs in tech (it is a bit sector after all) as an older newbie.
Thank you Cate. I listen to your podcasts.
I probably will be writing and speaking more on Ageism in tech. I spoke at QConNY 2017 this Spring on it and InfoQ just published: infoq.com/articles/tech-oldies-hiring
Nice! The article is good but it touches many difficult subjects.
Most of the companies (especially non-tech ones) will always hire averages (too young, they don't want to waste their resources to teach the new generation), too old they are afraid they will ask for special conditions, usually higher paychecks or they will want to do things in their ways, not the company way (not change).
I think remote jobs will mitigate this problem in the long run, the young ones get nervous or have strong feelings about their old peers. Some problems like "afraid to speak your mind on meetings" are accentuated because of these feelings.
. > 40yrs old have more problems to find work in most fields, across the globe.
This applies to any age. Change is difficult for humans. It's the most difficult thing to do for our brains, most of the devs will stay stuck for a long time in just 1 technology, even in 1 version of a language.
I will just add "human interaction", meetups, clubs, beers, just talk with other peers.
From what I saw & read in my limited experience, developers after 5-10yrs of exp they switch to management or other leading roles, writing none or less code. Is this a natural trend? How did you survived?
I wish to do the same, be a developer with 30ys+ of experience, not a manager with coding experience.
Lolz. So true, thanks for the article. I've been programming since I was 13 and worked in the valley all my career. I too saw those engineers who ossified in one technology generation but I learned the latest tech on my own time so I could stay relevant over a 30+ year career.
The ability to maintain mastery over 30+ years is harder than for a single generation alone and is proof that us "old engineers" have the chops needed for just about any challenge. We've made all the mistakes and can discern "shinny things" from real technology/trends.
The one area where we may be lacking is the ability to know what young people will think about a product/service. That is what user testing is for...
Thanks again for the thought provoking article.
Really excellent post Don! You should watch @nukemberg's talk from the last @devopsdaysTLV youtu.be/jEgPbOMgKqk - specifically the part about domain expertise and how that takes 20 years to cultivate. Seasoned professionals.
Thank you. Sharone.
I did watch that presentation. It was excellent. I put a summary on the ageism in tech Slack channel and the corgibytes.com internal slack developers channel.
I'm wondering whether this is an issue more for people who are applying for full-time jobs and long-term contracts.
As someone running his own IT service consultancy in Sydney, I'm finding that I'm getting better leads, and getting into conversations at higher levels than even six or twelve months ago. As I write early in 2017, I've never seen it so busy at this time of the year (mid summer, when Australia is collectively relaxing on the beach).
One differentiator for me is that I'm playing down my hands-on technical skills, and finding that business experience (breaking out of the IT silo) is something that seems to be getting the attention of the market.
Perhaps this is unique to Australia, where I am based, but over 50s are often well equipped to see the expensive problem and frame it in non-technical terms that resonate with decision makers.
Part of the problem is getting in the door. I've had to shorten up the resume and I'm in what should be the hottest market in the world. SF Bay Area, iOS developer with 7 years exp. If the demand for mobile devs can't overcome ageism, then we have a real problem.
I'm likely to start a mobile enterprise business because the job market seems to be closed off. I've done it before, but I really wanted to focus on software development and less on the business of software development.
I found this article at the perfect time! I am making plans on my own transition after 15+ years as a tech writer on the corporate side. And I've been through 2 RIFs and survived many others. Thank you, after reading your story -- I know that I can focus, set goals, be nimble, and -- be happy!!
I am very happy the piece gave you additional enthusiasm. Be addicted to change.
One of the best articles that I've ever read. Maybe by my moment, by my context. 2018 is coming and I am just thinking about the new languages and technologies that I want to learn. Meanwhile, I keep surrounded by lazy young people, that lost the passion for the area.
Julio:
I'm take aback by your compliment. Thank you. You have added fuel to my New Years resolution to write more. Subsequent to the Getting Older post, I did a series of articles on InfoQ that have been well received.
I get around age/gender discrimination by giving everyone the same entrance criteria.
1) A pre-contract assessment where they need to complete a technical challenge
2) An on-boarding phase (3 months) where all candidates go through a structured weekly program of learning/feedback and assessment.
So long as the candidate's contribution matches their salary expectation everything works out fine. Age doesn't need to come into the equation.
Oh and we don't do interviews!
Great stuff. I couldn't agree more. I am the oldest person in my company and I happen to be a dev. But, like you say, I still love learning the new tech, figuring out how to solve problems with it, and spreading that knowledge around. It seems backward that in an industry where experience matters, too much of it can be a bad thing...
I think this will get better as more devs get older.
Thanks again for the post.
Nice post, Don! I'm also solidly into my 50's and have, in the past 5 years, worked in companies where I was among the youngest and oldest in the room (more the latter than the former, though). Despite being in a number of consulting and management roles, solving problems with code is still what brings me the most joy. I recently passed the 35th anniversary of my first Hello World program in BASIC on an Apple ][, and most recently have learned how to build apps on Roku devices using their BrightScript language and environment. I do have to say that the one thing I find the most funny is developers with maybe a couple of years' experience being absolutely certain that vim/emacs/some-other-editor is the "one true way" to build software. :)
I appreciate your article. This is something that I have recently discussed within our office. Having worked with developers of all age ranges and determination. We tend to focus on the negative stereotypes and not giving chances to those that have continued to adapt.
I completely age discrimination is real and have experienced it from a different perspective when applying for a leadership position. Due to my age there was an assumed lack of experience that was an immediate disadvantage.
I hope we collectively can fight back on this and ensure that value a person can add to the company is the main reason for employing them.
Kyle:
Thank you. And you might consider joining the Slack channel: disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fslac...
Thank you. I am really glad I read your article. It made my day!
thank you. I have a continuing series in InfoQ.com on aging in tech.
There are many more younger devs than there are old ones. Every year the number of new developers entering the work force is more than the previous year. So the average will always tend towards younger. There are just fewer older devs to employ.
Older devs are in high demand, but only for high level positions. And they cost a lot more, so the hiring process is more rigorous.
See the last graph on this page: offerzen.com/blog/how-long-does-it...
It gets exponentially more difficult to find a job as your salary expectation goes up.
You'll do fine as you get older, as long as you make sure you don't fall behind and have your skill set become irrelevant. If you keep on top of your game, your years of experience will put you in a completely different class than junior and mid level devs.
Good grief, this is one article that I wish I could have written.
Great stuff, thanks for the encouragement.
56 years old and going strong.
Great article! I have been conference averse in the past but your observation that you "learn more in the hallways" makes me reconsider.
Sounds like Zuckerberg is trying to sow seeds of division. Too much of that going around already. We're all individuals.
Hai imparato l'Italiano a 52 anni? Complimenti!
Eheh, great article, I'm very (very) young and I often think how I will look like as a JS developer in 20 years.
Beh, io solo provando. Ultimamente io sono stato imparando Python and Django tra italiano libri and video (e.g. autori Marco Beri and Marco Buttu.) Grazi per tuo complimenti.