Accessibility First DevRel. I focus on ensuring content created, events held and company assets are as accessible as possible, for as many people as possible.
There are multiple reasons for this but one is compatibility with old screen reader software.
A lot of people who use a screen reader get used to a particular assistive device and the way it works, so switching from JAWS to NVDA is not a straight forward decision. (look at Stephen Hawking's voice - he could easily have had a better voice as technology advanced, but he liked it, he was used to it, it was part of his identity etc.)
Because of the cost of JAWS (£699 in the UK) a lot of people can't afford to upgrade. Old versions of JAWS don't play well with other browsers so we end up with people still using IE11.
Yes IE needs to die and I definitely support telling people to upgrade, but supporting vs offering a perfect experience are two different things.
As long as all actions can be performed and the site looks OK and is usable / accessible, it doesn't matter if it isn't pixel perfect.
Anyway - I think you have just given me inspiration for my next "angry accessibility rant", I will make sure to give you a mention in the nice part at the end as I think that is a great topic to cover! ❤
First: 700 moneys for a screen reader!? That is disgustingly expensive. I understand that in the real world all software can't be FOSS, people have to make a living, but seeing prices like that makes my blood boil. Why are people not shaming and boycotting this company for gouging people with disabilities? Are there any FOSS competitors that could be supported to help reduce this companies ability to overcharge for something so essential?
I hear what you're saying and understand your desire to serve your users above all else. However, having learned webdev back near the start of the second browser wars, I'm of the opinion that supporting IE causes far more harm to the entire web community than it provides benefit to the few that are helped. The sooner websites stop supporting IE (or better yet actively work to not support it), the sooner the entire ecosystem will be forced to move past it and that will benefit everyone. The needs of the many, as it were.
I'm honored I could help inspire another article and I'll definitely be looking forward to reading it. :)
Accessibility First DevRel. I focus on ensuring content created, events held and company assets are as accessible as possible, for as many people as possible.
Yes NVDA is completely free and Mac users get VoiceOver built in, there is also Windows Narrator built into Windows if you like pain (that is being unfair, it is way better now than it used to be)! 😋
JAWS is an impressive piece of kit, I don't think you can fault them for the price really as it literally talks to every piece of software on a PC and when they started there was nothing came even close to letting people who had vision impairments enjoy the PC experience and access software and the web.
Ironically if you are in the US it is only $95 a year....why they have different pricing around the world I have no idea!
I do agree, hell I have experienced the browser wars along side you and it was painful. It is the chicken and the egg scenario.
I want IE to die a (not so quiet) death, but I also can step back and realise that I am more "tech savvy" than most people and that it is just an overhang from the days when we didn't have "evergreen" browsers.
If we switch off support overnight people it would be force people to upgrade....but only if they know how to do it and a lot of people can barely turn a computer on!
Hell I remember the old "IE7 is dead" banners that advocated using FireFox for a better web experience, this is nothing new!
I can also make a pretty good business case for still supporting IE11 as 1-2% of all people still use it....that can be quite significant if none of your competition support it and you do. One site we support has 6% IE 9-11 users, they come to our site as they can't use others!
It is one of those "pain points" I am happy to put up with, I design for the latest and greatest, I just make sure I can polyfill the hell out of anything I implement so it works on IE11, I don't care if IE11 is performant.
In 5 years we will probably be having the same conversation about FireFox as it will be the only non-webkit browser left. Hell we could argue that Google Chrome is firing up the browser wars again as it is constantly introducing new features not in the HTML specs etc.
You and I signed up to work in this madhouse, we can't hate the battlefield we have chosen to fight on! 🤣🤣
I see what you're saying about JAWS, but outside of maybe the medical and aeronautic fields, no software should cost multiple hundreds, not these days when development gets cheaper and easier by the year. NVDA is definitely going on my list of projects to contribute to when I get time and to recommend others do likewise.
I personally think the pain of forcing the community past IE is worth it, even if a few suffer the fate of being left behind, but I'm willing to accept that my position is perhaps overzealous and you are probably arguing the more rational stance.
I would and do argue that Chrome is the new IE; it's a browser owned by a giant for-profit corporation that got it's oversized market share through shady means and only plays lip service to complying with standards, completely ignoring them when it suits their bottom line. What is even worse, more and more players are giving up and joining Chrome bandwagon instead of competing against it. Firefox may have its issues, but at least it is still competing and providing a much needed alternative to browser engine hegemony. I dare say the day Firefox dies, so will the idea of browsers being free (as in freedom and as in beer).
Ah, see that is where I'm lucky, I ducked out of this particular madhouse early on (partially because of IE compatibility madness) and have been quite happy on the battlefield that is front- and back-end desktop development. But, while I may work on the desktop, I live on the web, so I'm always interested in making it better.
Anyway, it's time I stop procrastinating and get back to work. In fact, I think I'll go crawl through a few of our applications and make sure tab orders are correct, all input widgets have labels, and that menu items have their keyboard shortcuts set correctly. Keep fighting the good fight, improving accessibility is important work. 👍
Accessibility First DevRel. I focus on ensuring content created, events held and company assets are as accessible as possible, for as many people as possible.
The problem, when we are talking about accessibility, is that a lot of users still rely on IE.
We recently made the decision to drop support for IE9 and 10 as usage for screen reader users is now below 1% but IE11 - still has over 10% of the screen reader market.
There are multiple reasons for this but one is compatibility with old screen reader software.
A lot of people who use a screen reader get used to a particular assistive device and the way it works, so switching from JAWS to NVDA is not a straight forward decision. (look at Stephen Hawking's voice - he could easily have had a better voice as technology advanced, but he liked it, he was used to it, it was part of his identity etc.)
Because of the cost of JAWS (£699 in the UK) a lot of people can't afford to upgrade. Old versions of JAWS don't play well with other browsers so we end up with people still using IE11.
Yes IE needs to die and I definitely support telling people to upgrade, but supporting vs offering a perfect experience are two different things.
As long as all actions can be performed and the site looks OK and is usable / accessible, it doesn't matter if it isn't pixel perfect.
Anyway - I think you have just given me inspiration for my next "angry accessibility rant", I will make sure to give you a mention in the nice part at the end as I think that is a great topic to cover! ❤
First: 700 moneys for a screen reader!? That is disgustingly expensive. I understand that in the real world all software can't be FOSS, people have to make a living, but seeing prices like that makes my blood boil. Why are people not shaming and boycotting this company for gouging people with disabilities? Are there any FOSS competitors that could be supported to help reduce this companies ability to overcharge for something so essential?
I hear what you're saying and understand your desire to serve your users above all else. However, having learned webdev back near the start of the second browser wars, I'm of the opinion that supporting IE causes far more harm to the entire web community than it provides benefit to the few that are helped. The sooner websites stop supporting IE (or better yet actively work to not support it), the sooner the entire ecosystem will be forced to move past it and that will benefit everyone. The needs of the many, as it were.
I'm honored I could help inspire another article and I'll definitely be looking forward to reading it. :)
Yes NVDA is completely free and Mac users get VoiceOver built in, there is also Windows Narrator built into Windows if you like pain (that is being unfair, it is way better now than it used to be)! 😋
JAWS is an impressive piece of kit, I don't think you can fault them for the price really as it literally talks to every piece of software on a PC and when they started there was nothing came even close to letting people who had vision impairments enjoy the PC experience and access software and the web.
Ironically if you are in the US it is only $95 a year....why they have different pricing around the world I have no idea!
I do agree, hell I have experienced the browser wars along side you and it was painful. It is the chicken and the egg scenario.
I want IE to die a (not so quiet) death, but I also can step back and realise that I am more "tech savvy" than most people and that it is just an overhang from the days when we didn't have "evergreen" browsers.
If we switch off support overnight people it would be force people to upgrade....but only if they know how to do it and a lot of people can barely turn a computer on!
Hell I remember the old "IE7 is dead" banners that advocated using FireFox for a better web experience, this is nothing new!
I can also make a pretty good business case for still supporting IE11 as 1-2% of all people still use it....that can be quite significant if none of your competition support it and you do. One site we support has 6% IE 9-11 users, they come to our site as they can't use others!
It is one of those "pain points" I am happy to put up with, I design for the latest and greatest, I just make sure I can polyfill the hell out of anything I implement so it works on IE11, I don't care if IE11 is performant.
In 5 years we will probably be having the same conversation about FireFox as it will be the only non-webkit browser left. Hell we could argue that Google Chrome is firing up the browser wars again as it is constantly introducing new features not in the HTML specs etc.
You and I signed up to work in this madhouse, we can't hate the battlefield we have chosen to fight on! 🤣🤣
I see what you're saying about JAWS, but outside of maybe the medical and aeronautic fields, no software should cost multiple hundreds, not these days when development gets cheaper and easier by the year. NVDA is definitely going on my list of projects to contribute to when I get time and to recommend others do likewise.
I personally think the pain of forcing the community past IE is worth it, even if a few suffer the fate of being left behind, but I'm willing to accept that my position is perhaps overzealous and you are probably arguing the more rational stance.
I would and do argue that Chrome is the new IE; it's a browser owned by a giant for-profit corporation that got it's oversized market share through shady means and only plays lip service to complying with standards, completely ignoring them when it suits their bottom line. What is even worse, more and more players are giving up and joining Chrome bandwagon instead of competing against it. Firefox may have its issues, but at least it is still competing and providing a much needed alternative to browser engine hegemony. I dare say the day Firefox dies, so will the idea of browsers being free (as in freedom and as in beer).
Ah, see that is where I'm lucky, I ducked out of this particular madhouse early on (partially because of IE compatibility madness) and have been quite happy on the battlefield that is front- and back-end desktop development. But, while I may work on the desktop, I live on the web, so I'm always interested in making it better.
Anyway, it's time I stop procrastinating and get back to work. In fact, I think I'll go crawl through a few of our applications and make sure tab orders are correct, all input widgets have labels, and that menu items have their keyboard shortcuts set correctly. Keep fighting the good fight, improving accessibility is important work. 👍
Lucky you with your desktop “write it this way and it will work” fanciness! 🤣
Yeah fun conversation but work beckons (we’ll tea beckons as it is 7pm here in the UK)!