I can't believe how entitled some software developers are. No wonder why Guido stepped down recently. Just like Guido, Evan is doing his best to make programming easier for everyone, giving away his work for free, and you are mad because the new release, which you are not forced in any way to update any time soon, mildly inconveniences you?
It's super to express your opinions on the internet, but very difficult to listen to them all. Not all of them are helpful, and it's impossible to take into account all of them. Language design is extremely difficult, our industry still has A LOT to learn about it. Sometimes hard decisions have to made, and you must go with the lesser evil. If you want control so badly, why don't you fork the compiler and implement the language as you see fit?
It's not like 0.19 brings a a completely new language. Ports have been the better way for JS interop for a while now. Removing operators just means that you have to refactor your code to not use them, and the compiler already makes refactoring easier. You have plenty of time to figure out your strategy for migrating.
The worst thing about this is that outsiders are seeing this and think "Wow! Elm is such a mess, I'm glad we stuck with React/Vue/Angular.". <- This actually hurts the community, it's simply not true. There's still a long way to go, but Elm is looking good with this new release.
Entitlement is an interesting concept. As developers we are spoiled for choice in tools. Elm is competing for mindshare in a flooded landscape. It is a totally weird thing since it (and most of the other tools) are provided for free! However, choosing one of these tools is also an investment with an associated risk. The directions that your tools take can directly affect your projects.
I saw the seeds of unhealthiness (e.g. censorship of disagreement) a while ago. But I mostly kept quiet about them because I figured: "Ah, every place has it's problems." Usually, life has a way of working those things out over time. It didn't seem to affect the practical needs of users, so I was content to participate with Elm in my own way. On this site for example, I have often plugged Elm when people asked about tech choices and made articles about it myself. But the timbre seems to have changed with 0.19. Instead of issues getting better, they are getting more rigid, finding their way into the product, and increasing our risk in using it.
The vision of Elm is one I want to see realized. But how we were getting there was already deleterious to the community. And it only seems to be getting more so. Saying nothing (or saying something in Elm's own forums) does not help to surface the issues. Surfacing the issues is important to overcoming them. Which I sincerely hope Elm does, because it is an amazing product that I genuinely enjoy for creating and maintaining UIs. This whole thing saddens me as well.
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I can't believe how entitled some software developers are. No wonder why Guido stepped down recently. Just like Guido, Evan is doing his best to make programming easier for everyone, giving away his work for free, and you are mad because the new release, which you are not forced in any way to update any time soon, mildly inconveniences you?
It's super to express your opinions on the internet, but very difficult to listen to them all. Not all of them are helpful, and it's impossible to take into account all of them. Language design is extremely difficult, our industry still has A LOT to learn about it. Sometimes hard decisions have to made, and you must go with the lesser evil. If you want control so badly, why don't you fork the compiler and implement the language as you see fit?
It's not like 0.19 brings a a completely new language. Ports have been the better way for JS interop for a while now. Removing operators just means that you have to refactor your code to not use them, and the compiler already makes refactoring easier. You have plenty of time to figure out your strategy for migrating.
The worst thing about this is that outsiders are seeing this and think "Wow! Elm is such a mess, I'm glad we stuck with React/Vue/Angular.". <- This actually hurts the community, it's simply not true. There's still a long way to go, but Elm is looking good with this new release.
Thanks for your comment.
Entitlement is an interesting concept. As developers we are spoiled for choice in tools. Elm is competing for mindshare in a flooded landscape. It is a totally weird thing since it (and most of the other tools) are provided for free! However, choosing one of these tools is also an investment with an associated risk. The directions that your tools take can directly affect your projects.
I saw the seeds of unhealthiness (e.g. censorship of disagreement) a while ago. But I mostly kept quiet about them because I figured: "Ah, every place has it's problems." Usually, life has a way of working those things out over time. It didn't seem to affect the practical needs of users, so I was content to participate with Elm in my own way. On this site for example, I have often plugged Elm when people asked about tech choices and made articles about it myself. But the timbre seems to have changed with 0.19. Instead of issues getting better, they are getting more rigid, finding their way into the product, and increasing our risk in using it.
The vision of Elm is one I want to see realized. But how we were getting there was already deleterious to the community. And it only seems to be getting more so. Saying nothing (or saying something in Elm's own forums) does not help to surface the issues. Surfacing the issues is important to overcoming them. Which I sincerely hope Elm does, because it is an amazing product that I genuinely enjoy for creating and maintaining UIs. This whole thing saddens me as well.