I have spent an inordinate amount of my career campaigning for more transparent salary structures within software engineering. There is one widespr...
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This! I have realized a lot of places have been asking what my range is and I feel like that's backward.
Also the bit about surprising current wages is so true. Over the summer I found out our intern was making basically the same as me and when I asked for a raise I was told I "wasn't doing specialized tasks." He was doing my overflow work. Part of the reason I quit.
I mean they are interested in you undercutting yourself by asking a salary that is too low.
Like if they have a salary range of 80k to 90k dollars and you ask 75k, they will happily give you 80k. You will feel great because that's more than what you asked, they will feel great because they are not allowed to give less than 80k anyway, but they managed to give you the minimum of their range while still making you believe that you made a good deal - actually you didn't.
That happened to me more than one time.
Interestingly that happens more to women than men - that's a big reason for the salary gap, women think that they have to earn their credentials before asking what they are worth.
I agree with all the points above. However the industry is far from such transparency. My approach before any interaction with the company is to honestly tell them 'I want X sum' whether they ask or not. And I do this for the benefit of both so we don t waste eachother s time.
Some weeks ago, I was contacted by a hiring firm and I asked the same question to not waste time. The recruiter said that they can cover my expectations but then, after I wasted more than a morning filling the application form, updating my cv, making a video introducing myself and resolving their psychological tests, they told me that they can pay me only half of what I asked.
Fair enough, you're absolutely right.
One more reason why employers don't indicate salary range is because... "We don't need people who are motivated by money only". They just expect you to work the sake of work. Sad but true :(
you are totally right.
I would add one thing:
never* answer the dreaded salary question : what salary do you expect
never until you meet the woman with hiring power
hint: that's not the HR guy, he can only reject you but never hire you
(*) unless you want to work for less money that they would have given you and don't mind undercutting your own interests
Agree with it. It's not to see if they offer an above average salary but just to see what we can expect and how we can evolve in the company. A big problem in the tech culture is that for a great salary evolution, you always have to change job. Finally, it's great to have the range of salary when you are moving to a different country / city, your life quality can vary a lot and it will help to make the decision !
I debated commenting on what is certainly a hot-bed issue, but... fine, I'll play devil's advocate. In my decade+ as hiring (engineering) manager at multiple companies there's a few things at play.
Less-than-perfect transfer of information from team/department/org to HR. I've sat down with HR/recruitment staff and explained things to the best of my ability on multiple occasions. But, at the end of the day, they are not engineers and rarely adept or sufficiently trained in the hiring of said individuals.
For mid to large sized organizations there's multiple positions open for a range of experience levels. To reduce the insanity and noise, a single JD (Job Description) will get posted and the recruiter or hiring manager will sort it out.
The hiring manager often doesn't have the authority to set salary ranges for positions they request. Sometimes it's dictated higher up based on the title, corporate policy, etc. For an outstanding hire you can pretty much always escalate it and get a competitive salary.
If you're willing to take applications from overseas, few applicants understand the concrete subtleties of regional cost of living, tax provisos, and so on. $Xk in Saigon is vastly different from $Xk in Silicon Valley.
Few applicants truly understand the market value of software engineers. Experience, title, technology du jour, urgency, budgets, location, etc.
Quite often I hire based on my real or perceived workload. I'll take a less expensive junior hire if I genuinely believe I will have the time to assist them. This is a good thing. When things get busy or urgent, I'll lean towards the experienced hire.
For these reasons and more it's just not that simple to provide a useful or meaningful salary range. In truth, it's often so wide as to be pointless. If you don't apply because there's no visible salary range you're doing yourself a real disservice, or you just don't want a job that bad.
Thank you!
I also keep telling this. Give me the numbers. I have a feeling that in the UK though, it's more common to give the range than in Hungary or in France. I'm not sure why.
I don't plan to switch nowadays, and usually, I reply this, yet asking for the range, just to keep myself up-to-date. There are a couple of recruiters who reply!