I don't know if this fits into this, but I had a bit of an issue when we were making a register page, where the user needed to enter their gender. My manager said, just add male and female. I said that this should no be binary, we should at least add the option for a 'Non-Binary' answer (although I identify with male gender, but know many people don't). He replied that this is not something we should worry about and that there are only 2 genders.
In the end, we ended up just putting the 2 options, I was quite pissed by the fact they don't even care about the people that might use this system. It's not just this, they didn't care about accessibility either.
The project then changed hands and the previous manager went another way gladly, I'm now the lead front end developer, and a good friend is the manager now. It's still not changed but we are in the workings :)
But here's a little perspective: he was right about "not something that you should worry about". Because it's not a technical discussion. You're there to make decisions about building the site, not content. Content decisions are made by other people.
Your boss seriously just wanted to get shit done, and it's not his responsibility to answer that question. The concern that you addressed was a side topic and would have served only to hinder project progress. Matter of fact, if you get nothing else from my post here, understand this: The guy that's your boss, anything he does is because he has a boss to report to.
On the other hand, if it's truly a topic that you believe needs to be addressed,
then be the change you want to see in the world.
In the position that you had, questions about content are absolutely within your power to take up the chain somewhere. Ask your bosses boss, ask your boss to ask the client, there's a million ways to address it, but there was a path there somewhere. There's always a path.
And it could easily begin with a question to that manager: "Then who would I talk to about this?" I'm not going to pretend to know the social implications of that particular manager, but any boss that's really just trying to get shit done would be ecstatic that someone else was taking a potential topic off their plate.
The main problem here is that it is NOT an issue where you were being ignored or your boss wasn't taking things seriously. Taking that approach would definitely be a distraction to the real question about diversity.
I totally agree with you in some sense, I might have not explained it correctly. It was not a technical question nor discussion, we where planing that detail at the moment. Not building it.
And the thing is, it was a little startup, where content and building the site was done by me, then why should I not bring this up? It was my job in a sense... I just wanted to consider it, but he just ignored me and said some rude things, which is the point I was trying to make, If he wouldn't have left I would of because he was not a good chap and I was not comfortable what so ever working for him :(
It was also not just this, there where many more cases... like accessibility... not even considering it (even for the future)...
I have had many "Bosses" that just want to get shit done, but fail to see important details and don't accept ideas/improvements from others in the team... just because they are the "boss". But totally understand your point, shit needs to be done... and shit was done, but also shit must be considered and thought.
be the change you want to see in the world
I have been, I ended up managing the front end and have made an effort to introduce some more accessibility and give a bit more importance to topics such as diversity/inclusion... still working on it, as "its not a priority", see that would be a good answer from my manager not "There are only 2 genders"...
The main problem here is that it is NOT an issue where you were being ignored or your boss wasn't taking things seriously. Taking that approach would definitely be a distraction to the real question about diversity.
For me the issue came with his comments on gender, they were not love comments, I can only tell you that much here.
Let me guess, you are one of those "Bosses" right?
That's an unnecessary judgement based on a severe lack of communication.
Which leads to another point: If someone doesn't directly and exactly agree with you, labelling them as "part of the problem" dilutes the original message and doesn't help your cause.
The original message here is to be sensitive to issues of inclusion. It's not about race, or gender or even any specific minority. That boss, based on your original post, seemed to be taking the track that I would have taken: "I'm more interested in complete the project to spec."
Now, I would have added to the conversation "If you think it's a discussion to be had, here's who you might talk to". Further, I would probably have helped you navigate the labyrinth to at least get a response.
The boss cast his opinion, which had no affect on anything . . . neither getting things done nor your drive to find a solution for accessibility. He didn't stop you from pursuing it elsewhere, which you could have done, regardless. Even in the end, if everyone at the office had told you "no" to the question, there are plenty of external resources and advocacy groups that would be willing to hear your story and perhaps even pursue a path of getting such a change made.
BUT . . . since I didn't agree with your directly and exactly, I'm part of the problem?
A group of black folks hollering "Black Lives Matter!" at a Bernie Sanders rally dilutes the message. Hollering "Sexual assault!" when an 80 yr old man pats a 26 yr old on the shoulder dilultes the message. Hollering "Pedophile!" at an 18 yr old with a 17 yr old significant other dilutes the message.
Casting an opinion that a person attempting to give you corporate perspective is part of the problem faced by... whoever it is you're trying to champion... it dilutes the original message and it does not help the cause.
Thanks for that man!! And sorry, I was quite stressed that day and sometimes I say stupid sh*t, I'm trying to improve that.
You are totally right and really appreciate your point, and that you took the time to explain it. Most people would have just ignored it, so thanks!
I might add this, we are now in the 3rd year of refactoring that project because this "Boss" left 3yr tech depth on a 1yr project... this might give an insight into why I wasn't happy with him... this does not mean he was wrong not caring about that at the moment, but this translated to many other aspects of the project. And he did not accept opinions nor ideas from anyone... not even his boss.
Now, I would have added to the conversation "If you think it's a discussion to be had, here's who you might talk to". Further, I would probably have helped you navigate the labyrinth to at least get a response
This would have been a better approach, many managers/bosses should try and do this more, better than saying bad things about it or not considering it... so yeah, I don't think you're one of "them".... sorry again.
// , “It is not so important to be serious as it is to be serious about the important things. The monkey wears an expression of seriousness... but the monkey is serious because he itches."(No/No)
But here's a little perspective: he was right about "not something that you should worry about". Because it's not a technical discussion. You're there to make decisions about building the site, not content. Content decisions are made by other people.
Doesn't hurt to have engineers who think about the bigger picture. But yeah, overall I do agree with this.
// , “It is not so important to be serious as it is to be serious about the important things. The monkey wears an expression of seriousness... but the monkey is serious because he itches."(No/No)
TL:DR; Company runs into a huge issue due to single sourced part: A capacitor. 'Twas chosen because it was pretty, engineer didn't think to check supply chain of the part because it's "not my area."
Single sourced means there's only one supplier, rather than multiples. If the only source of the supplier runs into capacity issues, the whole damn thing shuts down. We're seeing a bit of this with the whole SARS-2 outbreak's effect on modern supply chains.
Anyway, the VP of this company responsible for supply chains has to go down through 6 layers of management to talk to the engineer who specified it.
The engineer's reason? "It was blue, and looked better on the board. Supply chain's not my area."
Suffice to say, many specialized workers do not have much of a good reason to look outside of their area. "Will that affect my paycheck or my performance ratings? NOPE!" But companies who can inspire sidelong glances by their specialists, at other parts of the business will get more opportunities and avoid risks. That example was for an engineer who could have avoided a huge risk by making a sidelong glance at the supply chain implications of a decision.
But what about the sales guy who decides to learn Visual Basic, or the finance VP who tries out Terraform?
Or the backend Enterprise systems coder who asks his employer (ahem) to consider paying for graphic design lessons?
Yeah that person had no reason to poke their head up for any reason, so they didn't.
The person I was replying to had a desire, a goal. There's ways to get that stuff done. Typically, especially for stuff that is not on the Design Doc 😁, you're going to have to color outside the lines to get anything done.
A good supv will help you because it helps you get better.
An average supv can't be bothered to help you.
A bad supv won't help you at all because it helps you get better than them.
For further actions, you may consider blocking this person and/or reporting abuse
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I don't know if this fits into this, but I had a bit of an issue when we were making a register page, where the user needed to enter their gender. My manager said, just add male and female. I said that this should no be binary, we should at least add the option for a 'Non-Binary' answer (although I identify with male gender, but know many people don't). He replied that this is not something we should worry about and that there are only 2 genders.
In the end, we ended up just putting the 2 options, I was quite pissed by the fact they don't even care about the people that might use this system. It's not just this, they didn't care about accessibility either.
The project then changed hands and the previous manager went another way gladly, I'm now the lead front end developer, and a good friend is the manager now. It's still not changed but we are in the workings :)
It's a valid question of diversity/inclusion.
But here's a little perspective: he was right about "not something that you should worry about". Because it's not a technical discussion. You're there to make decisions about building the site, not content. Content decisions are made by other people.
Your boss seriously just wanted to get shit done, and it's not his responsibility to answer that question. The concern that you addressed was a side topic and would have served only to hinder project progress. Matter of fact, if you get nothing else from my post here, understand this: The guy that's your boss, anything he does is because he has a boss to report to.
On the other hand, if it's truly a topic that you believe needs to be addressed,
then be the change you want to see in the world.
In the position that you had, questions about content are absolutely within your power to take up the chain somewhere. Ask your bosses boss, ask your boss to ask the client, there's a million ways to address it, but there was a path there somewhere. There's always a path.
And it could easily begin with a question to that manager: "Then who would I talk to about this?" I'm not going to pretend to know the social implications of that particular manager, but any boss that's really just trying to get shit done would be ecstatic that someone else was taking a potential topic off their plate.
The main problem here is that it is NOT an issue where you were being ignored or your boss wasn't taking things seriously. Taking that approach would definitely be a distraction to the real question about diversity.
I totally agree with you in some sense, I might have not explained it correctly. It was not a technical question nor discussion, we where planing that detail at the moment. Not building it.
And the thing is, it was a little startup, where content and building the site was done by me, then why should I not bring this up? It was my job in a sense... I just wanted to consider it, but he just ignored me and said some rude things, which is the point I was trying to make, If he wouldn't have left I would of because he was not a good chap and I was not comfortable what so ever working for him :(
It was also not just this, there where many more cases... like accessibility... not even considering it (even for the future)...
I have had many "Bosses" that just want to get shit done, but fail to see important details and don't accept ideas/improvements from others in the team... just because they are the "boss". But totally understand your point, shit needs to be done... and shit was done, but also shit must be considered and thought.
I have been, I ended up managing the front end and have made an effort to introduce some more accessibility and give a bit more importance to topics such as diversity/inclusion... still working on it, as "its not a priority", see that would be a good answer from my manager not "There are only 2 genders"...
For me the issue came with his comments on gender, they were not love comments, I can only tell you that much here.
That's an unnecessary judgement based on a severe lack of communication.
Which leads to another point: If someone doesn't directly and exactly agree with you, labelling them as "part of the problem" dilutes the original message and doesn't help your cause.
The original message here is to be sensitive to issues of inclusion. It's not about race, or gender or even any specific minority. That boss, based on your original post, seemed to be taking the track that I would have taken: "I'm more interested in complete the project to spec."
Now, I would have added to the conversation "If you think it's a discussion to be had, here's who you might talk to". Further, I would probably have helped you navigate the labyrinth to at least get a response.
The boss cast his opinion, which had no affect on anything . . . neither getting things done nor your drive to find a solution for accessibility. He didn't stop you from pursuing it elsewhere, which you could have done, regardless. Even in the end, if everyone at the office had told you "no" to the question, there are plenty of external resources and advocacy groups that would be willing to hear your story and perhaps even pursue a path of getting such a change made.
BUT . . . since I didn't agree with your directly and exactly, I'm part of the problem?
A group of black folks hollering "Black Lives Matter!" at a Bernie Sanders rally dilutes the message. Hollering "Sexual assault!" when an 80 yr old man pats a 26 yr old on the shoulder dilultes the message. Hollering "Pedophile!" at an 18 yr old with a 17 yr old significant other dilutes the message.
Casting an opinion that a person attempting to give you corporate perspective is part of the problem faced by... whoever it is you're trying to champion... it dilutes the original message and it does not help the cause.
Thanks for that man!! And sorry, I was quite stressed that day and sometimes I say stupid sh*t, I'm trying to improve that.
You are totally right and really appreciate your point, and that you took the time to explain it. Most people would have just ignored it, so thanks!
I might add this, we are now in the 3rd year of refactoring that project because this "Boss" left 3yr tech depth on a 1yr project... this might give an insight into why I wasn't happy with him... this does not mean he was wrong not caring about that at the moment, but this translated to many other aspects of the project. And he did not accept opinions nor ideas from anyone... not even his boss.
This would have been a better approach, many managers/bosses should try and do this more, better than saying bad things about it or not considering it... so yeah, I don't think you're one of "them".... sorry again.
Doesn't hurt to have engineers who think about the bigger picture. But yeah, overall I do agree with this.
Ever heard the story of the "The Blue Capacitor"?
I have not, worth taking a look?
Yes. Yes it is.
TL:DR; Company runs into a huge issue due to single sourced part: A capacitor. 'Twas chosen because it was pretty, engineer didn't think to check supply chain of the part because it's "not my area."
Single sourced means there's only one supplier, rather than multiples. If the only source of the supplier runs into capacity issues, the whole damn thing shuts down. We're seeing a bit of this with the whole SARS-2 outbreak's effect on modern supply chains.
Anyway, the VP of this company responsible for supply chains has to go down through 6 layers of management to talk to the engineer who specified it.
The engineer's reason? "It was blue, and looked better on the board. Supply chain's not my area."
Suffice to say, many specialized workers do not have much of a good reason to look outside of their area. "Will that affect my paycheck or my performance ratings? NOPE!" But companies who can inspire sidelong glances by their specialists, at other parts of the business will get more opportunities and avoid risks. That example was for an engineer who could have avoided a huge risk by making a sidelong glance at the supply chain implications of a decision.
But what about the sales guy who decides to learn Visual Basic, or the finance VP who tries out Terraform?
Or the backend Enterprise systems coder who asks his employer (ahem) to consider paying for graphic design lessons?
I saw that story you posted.
Yeah that person had no reason to poke their head up for any reason, so they didn't.
The person I was replying to had a desire, a goal. There's ways to get that stuff done. Typically, especially for stuff that is not on the Design Doc 😁, you're going to have to color outside the lines to get anything done.
A good supv will help you because it helps you get better.
An average supv can't be bothered to help you.
A bad supv won't help you at all because it helps you get better than them.