re: Hating on languages you don't use VIEW POST

re: PHP ranting in 3.2.1.

The funny thing is that people who hate on PHP don't actually use PHP, the ones who do are busy getting things done and being productive


I used PHP, created a lot of apps in it in v4-5. I wouldn't say I hate it, but I would never use it again on a new project. But then again, I could say that about a lot of languages.

Javascript, I hate. Its weird edges have wasted entirely too much of my limited lifespan.


I don't program PHP anymore myself since many years ago, but I know some PHP shops that make good profit by building Webapps in PHP.

Besides, in my experience, being productive depends quite more on the developer and the team than in the language.

Definitely there's a number of companies running php and are happy about it, question is - how happy developers are. From my experience php programming is way much less about the language and mostly about frameworks.
In fact, language + stdlib is so poor that every other framework defines its own Collection (hi Doctrine). This makes php developer more Symfony or Laravel developer, and the tend to use Bundles distributed along with these frameworks. Just check out php's package manager repository - for every library out there there's "bundle" version which is easy to plug into Symfony. Developers started to forget, how to use libraries.
Funny enough, now Symfony pushes against Bundle distribution system, but it took them this long to decide on that. I dont think this is healthy for both developers and framework, to be that "big" in the whole picture. I like idea of clean architecture and framework being implementation detail, but with php, when you are throwing away framework in an attempt to have clean architecture, you're left with nothing. Believe me, I've been there and abandoned these pointless efforts - amount of boilerplate is overwhelming.
So my point is - php developer's place is being a framework-dependent and producing framework-centric applications. Not something I find particularly exciting.


Learning the nuances of PHP only makes you hate it more :P


people who hate on PHP don't actually use PHP

Well, maybe they don't use it because they hate it :)

Joke aside, you are kinda right, most PHP haters don't actually use or know the language enough to justify this hate (I would know, I'm one of those awful persons :D), but hey, it's not important, IMHO, it's best to just let people have their opinion, whether or not it's justified. Also "hate" is often not "hate" and more "I don't feel like using this language, just leave me alone"... which is kinda ok too, I guess.


Jokes aside, besides all that personal emotional stuff, there are metrics existing. Even for the language design. The easiest one is sorta pair division: when two of us are arguing about different languages, they should stop arguing and play a game: you invent a problem, I solve it in the language of my choice, and vice versa. Then we compare results.

That simple, but it works.

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