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Discussion on: An Organizer's Guide to Pronoun Buttons

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Josh Symonds • Edited

My mative[sic] language is french

If this is true, how can you possibly have any objection to arbitrary genders for nouns? Unless you truly believe the moon is female, then you use pronouns that agree with the noun without thinking of "mating" in your own native tongue. Same deal with pronouns for people, what's so difficult about that?

The topic is vastly discussed and wikipedia helps nothing but hurting your credibility.

The idea of gender as socially informed is accepted by pretty much every sociologist, psychologist, and gender theorist in existence (as that Wikipedia page you didn't bother reading summarizes extremely well). You say the topic is "vastly discussed" but you seem uninformed about the expert consensus -- also your objections don't track with anything anyone knowledgeable in this field says, so my guess is you actually don't know anything about this and you're just asserting your position. I'd be happy for citations to prove me wrong.

I was not referring to pronouns in broad usage but pronouns used to refer to other people in a social context, which is the actual topic here.

There is no difference. The pronoun assigned to a noun is arbitrary and can be irregular; so too people. The pronoun you use on a noun could be incorrect because you've misidentified its gender in grammatically gendered languages; so too people. If you treat the two categories as exactly equivalent (which they are) you'll see why your position is absurd.

and it should be fine for you as long as you know I am not disrespectful but only have different beliefs.

This is pretty laughable. You can, of course, say whatever you want, but you can't control other people's reactions to what you say. If you say something offensive and then explain it, no one is beholden to forgive you or not feel offended. And if they don't forgive you, you're still the one at fault. You should strive not to be disrespectful, instead of blaming the people you've hurt for being hurt by you.

Nothing about being a jerk or whatever, simply two adults agreeing to disagree.

No. In this case, a person is telling you the correct form of address for them and you're telling them you don't care. That's rude, and would make you a jerk.

You should not compare names with pronouns, name have uniqueness, which means that name does not represent anything except identity.

This is also absurd. Names are not unique to individuals, clearly; they're not even inherently gendered. (For example, "Pat" could be "Patrick" or "Patricia" so says nothing about the gender of the person the name describes. You would need a pronoun for that.) In your mother tongue, pronouns are required to refer to a noun properly -- and in both French and English, nouns can be entirely replaced by pronouns but still refer to the same "identity."

So no, names and pronouns are not unique. Both are necessary. They do not necessarily have anything to do with the gender of the thing to which they're referring, and have no standard for doing so. Pronouns aren't special, they're just attachments and replacements for nouns.

me not believing that activists are representants of the invisible mass is actually quite decent for an hypothesis.

Your hypothesis, again, is wrong. Transgender people, as this article and the many comments on it demonstrates, want people to use the proper pronouns for them. If you think otherwise, feel free to find some trans people and ask them how they would react if you refer to them by the incorrect pronoun. The results will clearly surprise you!

that I have more opportunities or that I oppress you.

The rest of your comment is honestly just trying to cry about how you're the real victim here. Let me reframe the conversation for you:

Person whose gender you don't know: "Please use these pronouns when addressing me."
You: "No, I'll call you whatever I like."

Do you not see how that makes you a jerk?

you're overly spitting propaganda without any concern of moderation

What propaganda? Also, my comments have been substantially in line with the Code of Conduct for this site. Can you say the same?