If it is your first job, go for one with good potential (commute/team/mgt/tech etc), put a few bucks away safely for a rainy day (this = choice) & look for better (if required). Losing that first one, being knocked back, losing your confidence, wasting time & energy is not worth it for a smallish amount. If you neg & they turn you down + you don't get the job you will always wonder.
Once there, sure, do something to stand out, renegotiate your terms, ask for equity, find alternative companies, try to get your name on patents, products etc. Take control/power to have control/power. Bad companies slow you, good ones push you.
You will feel like your boss is your friend & the company is family but this is rarely reality. Friends & family will be there when it all goes wrong, your closest colleague probably won't if it is actually damaging to the company. Those are the almost universal rules at crunch time.
Build side projects, grow your profile (almost everyone buys into followers count in career terms, follower engagement, independent thought are valued higher by the right people) to increase your earning. Build it independent of your company, make them dependent on it.
Leave at {approaching} the top. Burn bridges (feels good). Learn compounding interest, spend money on income generating appreciating assets. Diversify. Don't get fooled by trends (fiscal/biz or tech). Have rainy day fund (emergency fund) so you can risk more.
Work mostly on your own site/stuff if free not billionaire social media sites.
Look for the tech trends that are sensibly going mainstream, not the sheep-bleet hype monkeys to get in early on for the big winners. Watch out for lawfare trickery to get your $ (share class/captable stuff).
Most money issues are not actually on the "I need to earn more" side which I think matters a lot (power dynamic matters in all deals).
I disagree with the notion that you will get turned down if you negotiate. Maybe you didn't exactly mean it that way, but that's exactly what a lot of people think already.
Negotiation is just about finding out what works best for both parties. You can negotiate without being a jerk. Also, hiring managers should really be expecting it. You really don't need to be afraid of negotiating at least a little bit. Even a little negotiation can make a huge difference.
I like to keep in mind that this company generally wants to keep me for at least a few years. So I try to not think about what value I bring today, but what value will I bring in 3 years, and set us up so that I don't have to worry about being tempted to leave.
Something else: Let's say you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of being the first one to quote a number. In my experience, one of three things will happen. This has been true well after my first job.
If they are interested in hiring you, they will come back with a counter offer. This will most likely be lower than what you asked for, but maybe exactly what you asked for. It will most likely not be more than what you asked for. :)
They are not interested in hiring you, so they turn you down. It wouldn't be because of what you asked for.
If they want to hire you, they will make an offer. They are not going to just say, "Sorry, wrong number!"
Also, they know it's your first job. They don't really expect you to have an accurate understanding of what the market will pay you.
It's not about finding out some arbitrary number that you are worth based on experience and such. It's about finding out what works for the company, based on how much value they expect you to bring, PLUS what works for you. It's perfectly reasonable to negotiate. Just have a reason for why you are negotiating.
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss is a great read on negotiating. Do yourself a favor and check it out: amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-...
This is a perfectly valid perspective & pretty much how you should negioiate almost all the time. If you can pull this off, do it. In fact, get Taylor right here to coach you.
I think in general you have so much going on as your first job that focus is on getting there, not sweating, making mistakes, tripping up, getting to the finish line. More factors just add pressure.
"Name three weaknesses"
"Err Err Err. Sorry, Ummm.. I am a bad negotiator"
"Name three strengths"
"Err Err Err. Sorry, Ummm.. I am good at deal making"
"What do you think you should get paid?"
"Ummm I think price-on-asking looks good".
It's basically that I am trying to say, more than "don't". If you can handle it, do it but if you are already overloaded take the L.
I agree with you on that. If it's your first job, and you're sure that thinking about negotiating is actually going to make you bad at the rest of the interview, then don't. :D
If that's the case, well in advance of the interview, I would just put some thought into what would make you happy to work there based on what you know about them already.
Also, it's all about your situation. Maybe you don't have a ton of options, and you are not likely to get another interview soon. To me, that means maybe I'd be happy to work there for peanuts.
To your point, I think, just like your first job is going to be a learning experience, so is are those first interviews. You are not going to do everything right. You likely have very little context to even understand what you are negotiating for.
I'd just encourage anybody to put some research into it beforehand. And then try to put it in the back of your mind until the time comes. At that time, if you are up to it, bring your mind back to your research and what you learned in the interview.
This is a better explanation than mine and is a good approach to follow. 👍 I would add, make sure you have multiple interviews lined up as it makes you more confident.
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In general, no.
If it is your first job, go for one with good potential (commute/team/mgt/tech etc), put a few bucks away safely for a rainy day (this = choice) & look for better (if required). Losing that first one, being knocked back, losing your confidence, wasting time & energy is not worth it for a smallish amount. If you neg & they turn you down + you don't get the job you will always wonder.
Once there, sure, do something to stand out, renegotiate your terms, ask for equity, find alternative companies, try to get your name on patents, products etc. Take control/power to have control/power. Bad companies slow you, good ones push you.
You will feel like your boss is your friend & the company is family but this is rarely reality. Friends & family will be there when it all goes wrong, your closest colleague probably won't if it is actually damaging to the company. Those are the almost universal rules at crunch time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Em...
fortune.com/2015/09/03/koh-anti-po...
Build side projects, grow your profile (almost everyone buys into followers count in career terms, follower engagement, independent thought are valued higher by the right people) to increase your earning. Build it independent of your company, make them dependent on it.
Leave at {approaching} the top. Burn bridges (feels good). Learn compounding interest, spend money on income generating appreciating assets. Diversify. Don't get fooled by trends (fiscal/biz or tech). Have rainy day fund (emergency fund) so you can risk more.
Work mostly on your own site/stuff if free not billionaire social media sites.
Rich people don't give you money easily, they take it. Be cold/firm when appropriate.
youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
Look for the tech trends that are sensibly going mainstream, not the sheep-bleet hype monkeys to get in early on for the big winners. Watch out for lawfare trickery to get your $ (share class/captable stuff).
Most money issues are not actually on the "I need to earn more" side which I think matters a lot (power dynamic matters in all deals).
I disagree with the notion that you will get turned down if you negotiate. Maybe you didn't exactly mean it that way, but that's exactly what a lot of people think already.
Negotiation is just about finding out what works best for both parties. You can negotiate without being a jerk. Also, hiring managers should really be expecting it. You really don't need to be afraid of negotiating at least a little bit. Even a little negotiation can make a huge difference.
I like to keep in mind that this company generally wants to keep me for at least a few years. So I try to not think about what value I bring today, but what value will I bring in 3 years, and set us up so that I don't have to worry about being tempted to leave.
Something else: Let's say you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of being the first one to quote a number. In my experience, one of three things will happen. This has been true well after my first job.
If they are interested in hiring you, they will come back with a counter offer. This will most likely be lower than what you asked for, but maybe exactly what you asked for. It will most likely not be more than what you asked for. :)
They are not interested in hiring you, so they turn you down. It wouldn't be because of what you asked for.
If they want to hire you, they will make an offer. They are not going to just say, "Sorry, wrong number!"
Also, they know it's your first job. They don't really expect you to have an accurate understanding of what the market will pay you.
It's not about finding out some arbitrary number that you are worth based on experience and such. It's about finding out what works for the company, based on how much value they expect you to bring, PLUS what works for you. It's perfectly reasonable to negotiate. Just have a reason for why you are negotiating.
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss is a great read on negotiating. Do yourself a favor and check it out:
amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-...
This is a perfectly valid perspective & pretty much how you should negioiate almost all the time. If you can pull this off, do it. In fact, get Taylor right here to coach you.
I think in general you have so much going on as your first job that focus is on getting there, not sweating, making mistakes, tripping up, getting to the finish line. More factors just add pressure.
"Name three weaknesses"
"Err Err Err. Sorry, Ummm.. I am a bad negotiator"
"Name three strengths"
"Err Err Err. Sorry, Ummm.. I am good at deal making"
"What do you think you should get paid?"
"Ummm I think price-on-asking looks good".
It's basically that I am trying to say, more than "don't". If you can handle it, do it but if you are already overloaded take the L.
I agree with you on that. If it's your first job, and you're sure that thinking about negotiating is actually going to make you bad at the rest of the interview, then don't. :D
If that's the case, well in advance of the interview, I would just put some thought into what would make you happy to work there based on what you know about them already.
Also, it's all about your situation. Maybe you don't have a ton of options, and you are not likely to get another interview soon. To me, that means maybe I'd be happy to work there for peanuts.
To your point, I think, just like your first job is going to be a learning experience, so is are those first interviews. You are not going to do everything right. You likely have very little context to even understand what you are negotiating for.
I'd just encourage anybody to put some research into it beforehand. And then try to put it in the back of your mind until the time comes. At that time, if you are up to it, bring your mind back to your research and what you learned in the interview.
This is a better explanation than mine and is a good approach to follow. 👍 I would add, make sure you have multiple interviews lined up as it makes you more confident.