re: The problem with “you guys” VIEW POST

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That might indeed prove to be a successful tactic, fellow "guy" ;)

Might I suggest a lifehack?

.low-quality-comment {
  color: #000 !important;
  opacity: 1 !important;
}

(I don't know what the color for snark is, but I suppose I've earned it now)

I think it would still be easier to avoid enforcing some kind of thought police all around.

I realise it is an idea pretty common in countries that never experienced any kind of fascism or the like, but considering where this kind of paranoia not to hurt/offend anybody easily can easily lead should not be that hard, should it?

I think the main issue they think there could exist a “good” censorship. Making everybody happy and whatnot.

It does not work that way, though. Unfortunately. If it did, I was the first one who supported the idea.

Then again, by your name I would assume you are Russian (or some other slavic place in the Warsaw pact, pardon my ignorance), so it would prove my point of people having some more direct touch with a fascist regimen or the like being much more cautious than a bunch of armchair "enthusiasts" in embracing any kind of censorship.

And yeah, while I can see some good case, I doubt you can have a good censorship all together.

[How much more grey will I get for this?]

(some async editing going on here)

That's a very good point! I'm definitely one of those people that is privileged by growing up in a very democratic, safe, and open society, that is, in Norway. I hadn't fully considered those kinds of experiences, even though I hint towards it in the actual blog post. I should've remembered this from my friends from East-Germany that tend to be much more careful with social technology in terms of being tracked, monitored and intervened with.

I still think there's something to being salient of how you address a group of people, but I think, despite the bad rhetorics, that a bot isn't a very good way to go about it.

I think the discussion has derailed a bit. As for this bot, you can't say it's censorship. As to what a community in whatever fuzzy way decides to be OK behavior or not to have a productive debate, you can't put that in terms of censorship either.

sloth-mascot Comment marked as low quality/non-constructive by the community View code of conduct

community in whatever fuzzy way decides to be OK behavior

LOL. Please go learn some history.

Oh, you would be more careful also in a shame-driven culture (like some of the largest ones in Asia or basically whatever was under the aegis of the catholic church), not just in communist or fascist regimens.

I still see what troubles people so much if they are collectively called "guys" just by convention: in my team (which, again, I definitely like and respect), basically everyone makes cultural references I do not get, on top of speaking a language which is not my native one (although I have been just using that for years): should I ask them to avoid mentioning anything too British for my ears or to speak in Esperanto, so that I can feel like I belong in there?

Come on, let's be realistic: harassment or discrimination are serious issues, while this paranoid campaign to make everybody thread on eggshells (I am not referring to you in particular, it is a general though) it is either useless or actually really offensive towards people who have actually experienced some kind of unfair work environment.

@giacomosorbi threads, sorry, I cannot answer you directly.

Yes, I am Russian. And I pretty fine understand all the circumstances.

But that is not what makes me fight for the freedom of everything. Well, maybe, to some extent, and I have to say “thank you” for hinting possible roots of all what I feel when I see posts like that.

What really makes me fight right now, is that I constantly dedicate a couple of hours on daily basis to damn help people on Stack Overflow. I publish a lot of free code to open source and people do indeed use it. And then I come here and I listen to claims that I am not tolerant enough or I do use “guys” in my verbal communication (I have never heard such a claim from the girls I teach and/or girls I employed.)

From the people who never did something but fighting for the getting rid of the word from the language.

[We definitely should shut up immediately until we are banned forever :)]

Glad to have provided you some food for thought :)

I am afraid somebody, probably not the OP, will remind you that you never heard complaints as you were in a position of power due to your "white privilege" (you should see how pissed an Eastern European colleague used to get when he was reminded of his privilege by people who were born with a silver spoon, quite unlike him :D ).

[I doubt I will be banned for this, but in case I will take as a badge of honour]

I honestly could not care less what stranger wants to remind me what.

Ok, I've managed to lose the thread here, but you sure assume a lot about someone you don't know. You haven't given me much credit for actually agreeing with a lot of what you say, and dong so in the text. I even included a clip from Demolition Man!

Once you toned down the useless rhetoric, you actually touch on different interesting points that proves how challenging and difficult this can be – which is frustrating, because it seems that it doesn't need to be. I haven't claimed to sit on the definitive answers, nor do I think you do, but what I think is worth thinking about is:

– What is the distinction between being offended and feeling excluded?
– How are efforts to influence, dictate or control communication experienced by people of different cultural and historical backgrounds?
– What is reasonable to expect from whom when it comes to inclusion in a tech community?
– Can we discuss how communicative actions can leave someone left out, without having to go down the rather unproductive “SJW”/partisan/whatever route?

I don't expect you to post the answers here – is just what I got from this whole ordeal.

I am pretty confident I am still entitled to say that imho that is censorship and can lead to even worse situations, in the same way you are entitled to disagree: I would never dream to censor these kind of ideas :)

I am still entitled to say that imho [...]

This.

And +1 for imho, not that fashionable self-“esteemed” imo :)

I started to use imso for “stupid” in our internal slack.

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