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Sten
Sten

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What's development like with a Surface laptop? Worth switching from OSX?

I feel like my beloved Macbook Pro purchased in 2015 will give up sooner or later and I'm starting to consider my options. From what I read here and there people seems disappointed by the new Macbooks (keyboard quality, lack of magsafe, ports, esc key...). Add to that the latest issues in their OS and it seems to me that buying a new Macbook Pro is not worth the $$$$ it costs anymore.

I'm really tempted to get a Surface Laptop and to go back to Windows after being on OSX for almost 10 years. However, I'd like to get the opinions of other devs before doing so. I've read a lot of blog posts but haven't really come across a good discussion between developers.

So, I'd be happy to get your feedback if you have done the transition OSX -> Windows 10. I believe that with Docker I can get rid of a lot of the dev environment issues but I have a few specific questions:

  • How's bash on Windows 10?
  • How's Docker support?
  • What about designing things? Is Figma the answer?
  • Is there anything you're missing?
  • Is there anything that is now making your life better?
  • What about viruses (10 years ago this was a big issue)?

Top comments (11)

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mbtts profile image
mbtts • Edited

Good question and I imagine many others are having similar thoughts.

How's bash on Windows 10?

I still find when using cygwin/babun and to a lesser extent WSL that these solutions leave gaps/quirky annoyances. There are still some issues to iron out. It will depend on usage, but the command line on a Macintosh or Ubuntu machine for me is still preferable.

Might need to find a good Git client

Along with Tower options include GitLens (as you are using VS Code), GitKraken, Sourcetree and of course GitHub Desktop.

What about designing things? Is Figma the answer?

Alternatives to Sktech and Figma are InVision Studio (although beta is for Mac - Windows coming soon) and Adobe XD (now free).

A couple more queries/things to consider:

  1. Do you collaborate with other designers using Sketch - or just use it yourself?
  2. Do you need/plan to use Sketch plugins (like Material Theme Editor)?
  3. Do you do/plan to do mobile development?

Some other thoughts:

  • Is it possible to dual boot your Mac and setup a Windows development environment to see how you like it? That might be the best test before you buy.

  • Surface Laptop is a very nice looking machine, but I think there are better alternatives in Windows land for a pure laptop. Even within Surface land I think the Book or Pro offer more ergonomic setups/positions when working with the pen or touch.

  • The 8th generation Intel chips are a noticeable step up performance (for a change). So I'd either wait for a refresh or look at one of the alternatives. I would also wait for WWDC (not long now) to see if Apple addresses the keyboard (and other areas).

  • I am not clear on which proportion of your work is design and which is development. You mention the command line (bash), VS Code and Docker. For this usage I would also consider Ubuntu or another linux distribution (dual boot). Wouldn't recommend linux at all for design, but it is very well suited for development.

  • There are positives and negatives and it is possible to get stuff done on all operating systems - but it isn't that close. On balance in spite of Apple making some annoying, questionable decisions for most developers (particularly web/client and mobile) macOS still offers the best mix of stability, compatibility and application support.

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stenpittet profile image
Sten

Thanks for the thorough post. Between dev and design, it's 80% dev and 20% design work so I'm much more worried about the dev setup and flow than the design part.

Do you collaborate with other designers using Sketch - or just use it yourself?

I don't do design work myself but I need something to view/modify sketch files and do basic edits on SVGs.

Do you need/plan to use Sketch plugins (like Material Theme Editor)?

Not myself directly. I use Sketch to do basic wireframing but I'd do an equivalent job with any wireframing app. I'm a poor designer.

Do you do/plan to do mobile development?

Yes, via React Native. Which does raise the question of testing the iOS version of the app. Great point.

My preference would be to get another MacBook and I really hope that Apple raises the bar again. Just getting myself ready in case my current machine collapses unexpectedly and I have to find a replacement rapidly.

Thanks again for your great feedback.

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mbtts profile image
mbtts

Thanks again for your great feedback.

Not a problem - I am glad it was of some benefit.

Microsoft say it is their mission to make Windows the best dev box "for you" - which is inspiring/commendable and I hope they achieve this goal.

It is also an admission that for most people Windows isn't currently the best dev box. Of course it is an open secret/blindingly obvious to anyone who has attended or watched any talk from a developer conference in recent years, so they aren't losing too much face admitting it.

As you are opening sketch files and working with react native then I agree at the moment it tips the balance in favour of macOS.

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cat profile image
Cat

I can only answer the questions about designing:

I've had a very good experience designing with a Surface Pro 4, especially when I'm on the go.
Drawing directly on screen has changed my approach to and quality of digital art/designs.

I can only speak of my experience with Adobe CC, though. :( I have tried the trial version of Paint Tool SAI, and was very satisfied with the flow.

I do miss having the shortcut buttons on the side on a Wacom.

I hope this helped!

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stenpittet profile image
Sten

Thanks for the insights. I'm doing basic stuff in Sketch and looking for an equivalent. Adobe CC is a bit too heavy handed for my needs. But having direct onscreen interaction sounds pretty cool.

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berkayunal profile image
Bunal • Edited

Well, i recently got a windows 10 notebook for urgent fixes and system checks. I have considered a windows notebook cause of the budget and i did not want to spend $$$$ to a notebook i would be using in rare cases. In the first few days i was about to throw it from the window... but getting used to it. Bash would satisfy your needs if you use git-bash or use "Windows Subsystem for Linux" on Ubuntu for examle. More info on this: docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/w...

For docker support you need to have Windows Pro version. This is required for the latest docker version. If you want to use previous one "Home" would be ok. I prefer using Vagrant for the dev environment and it is OK too.

The most important part to know is how windows app developers sees the world and their vision. The design and vision of the Mac apps are mostly absent in Windows apps. When you compare a website for an app that is for Mac and Windows you'll get the idea i am trying to explain. Transmit vs Filezilla and etc.

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stenpittet profile image
Sten

Thanks, I'm definitely wary of losing the seamless app experience that I have on my Macbook. I really have unpleasant memories from the whole install/uninstall app cycle under Windows.

When I think of my development experience needs it's pretty basic. If I can get bash, VS Code and Docker running I'm all set. Might need to find a good Git client and switch to Figma.

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berkayunal profile image
Bunal

Np. GitTower has recently released Windows version.

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spboyer profile image
Shayne Boyer

I use both a MBP and a SurfaceBook at my job. I can attest that the WSL experience on Windows is top notch and getting better every day.

Check out my post on my setup here - Setting up my WSL Environment - Azure CLI, Docker and .NET

I use Docker, .NET Core and node.js on a daily basis for my work and can jump back and forth between the two machines without missing a beat.

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stenpittet profile image
Sten

Amazing! Thanks a lot this is a great post and I learned a few things. I wasn't familiar with WSL before - I just new that it was easier to do some Linux things on Windows.

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