I get the impression that web development is the overwhelming path of choice for bootcamps, etc. But it's only one field in dev/IT.
I wonder if we could do better to have more diversity in early career education.
Thoughts?
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We had a discussion at work recently where our org wanted to be able to respond to Alpine 0 days well; and I was like... Uhh no web dev or app dev in the company can quickly just bang out some C/C++ code for MUSLC and patch our Alpine base container, you be crazy friend.
So yeah, maybe we do need more fields represented!
There are also fields within software that don't require low level languages. Ops/infra, test automation, DBA, etc.
It seems to me that a lot of folks just kind of stumble into these paths rather than being presented with them.
We have some test automation people! They're selenium wizards.
Now I want my LinkedIn headline to be Selenium Wizard
There is way more to test automation that just selenium (or other web-ui tests.)
Yes, but most recruiters on LinkedIn do not know that
If you're attempting to attract MORE LinkedIn recruiters, you're doing it wrong. So many InMails get wasted on me weekly.
Not more, but ideally not ones for manual testing positions. Or Java/C# devs.
Selenium Wizardis a clever enough phrase that succulently wraps up what kind of gig to contact about.The problem is the learning curve. In webdev it's linear.
Is it though? I feel like you could start in any variety of sub-disciplines of webdev and take the path from there. I don't know if any dev field is definitively linear.
How exactly? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just curious as to how you arrived at your conjecture that learning web development is linear compared to other fields.
Because when you want to do something basic you just need to reach for basic information/knowledge/documentation which is always somewhere right there.
Yeah, right but the amount of work you have to do is a lot different. The thing is JavaScript is a scripting language. My first approach to programming ever was C++ and I failed. When I was 17 I wanted to write a game bot in AutoHotkey (I guess?) which is also scripting language. It was a game-changer, suddenly everything was easy to do. So yeah, I think if you never coded before then scripting language is a good starting point. When we add the number of resources available on the internet it turns out JS HTML and CSS are the best choices IMHO.
Sure, I work in Java on a daily basis and I can tell that it's way more complex than JS. I'm not an expert in a Python but the syntax looks webdev friendly.
The good thing about web development is that to make a simple functional interface all you need is actually few lines of code and a browser. And probably notepad. No compilers, no IDEs, nothing. Go on and try to make a GUI in Java or Python or whatever without setting up environment, downloading packages etc :P
Before I get hit by argument such as:
Sure, but I think this is what newbies want to do - make something more interactive than terminal if-else game :)
I mostly agreed with you up until your last point. Of course it's a bit more difficult to write a GUI in Java or Python, because JavaScript is designed for building user interfaces.
In the same way, I could say, "try building an efficient machine learning algorithm in JavaScript instead of Python", because Python is designed for data science.
You are right, I knew my example wasn't the best! We are talking about learning curve here and I believe that doing anything in a scripting language is easier than in high-level language if you are a beginner and you don't have special requirements.
Python is probably an exception - I don't know, I don't have much experience with python. I tried to learn it but I'm not into data science and all I wanted to do was possible with node.js :P.
Ok, I gotcha, and with that I'd mostly agree.
And same! I've never had to touch Python much, I pretty much use Vue + MongoDB for everything nowadays. 😂
I think it's rather mountainous. Something like this:
There's a lot of ups and downs during the learning experience as the tech stack is kinda overwhelming and evolving frequently. It happens that sometimes you make progress in a certain subject but you find yourself in need to re-learn the basic to advance and explore new paths you weren't aware of previously.
I don't see it like that. At least around me I know many that go to Python, leaning to DS. I have been in a Flutter meetup and yes, mobile devs are a few compared with web devs but, the community exists so...
Embedded programming and IoT is one field that is really tiny in did.
WebDev is of course the biggest field, and I see it fair because it has more traffic, more interactions, recollects more data, and probably moves more money than the other ones.
I kinda think web development is more accessible and easier.
Within few months, you can be a productive developer in web. However, I cannot argue that this cannot happen in other fields because I have no idea really. Also, if you tell someone who has nothing to do with computers: "do you want to learn how to make a website?" it sounds doable. But if you say: "do you want to learn how to setup the entire communication system for any company?" or "do you wanna learn how to make computers as smart as humans?" they still sound geeky. Am I making sense? :/
For me, it was more a path of least resistance. I initially wanted to do audio programming and DSP and eventually build a digital synthesizer. Learned python by accident thinking that was the way to go. After realizing I wouldn’t be able to build a plug-in for fl studio with python , I decided to start looking at other ways I could use my new skills so web development looked feasible. I ended up spending more time tinkering with JavaScript and ditched python altogether. After a few years in the game I’m starting to explore where else I can put JS to work outside the context of the browser and a server, but at the same time wish I spent more time with C++. Now that I have a full time gig, my time is more valuable in terms of what I do outside of work. I can work with the tech I already know and love to better my future career opportunities but also want to seriously start doing some audio programming. There’s so much to do in the world of programming but so little time. Might just double down and dive deeper into the web. Who knows
They're more so pushed to in-house technical recruiters
I feel like web dev is a nice target for beginners because it gives you a pretty quick feeling of making progress due to the emphasis on building a GUI. Game development might be the only area with a more intense focus on beginning with graphics.
Definitely doesn't mean that the world only needs web developers, though!
This is probably true.
But I wouldn't be shocked if the need for the GUI feedback might just be for an absence of creative ways to teach other subjects. 🤷♂️
In your opinion, what software field most needs new methods of teaching?
I believe the frontend is what people are most familiar with when it comes to development. When most people think of Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc you typically think of the front facing user interface. Very few people ever have to think about how their data is handled in the backend at scale or how low level systems process that information. Therefore, web dev concepts are easier to grasp because of established familiarity as in the goal is clearer. That was my experience anyways. I was able to see the application (no pun intended) of what I was building.
Yep, social media is everywhere and is mostly web dev. Also if a business wants to sell online, well web dev again. And so on... you don't really "see" other stuff, besides a OS but people say "my laptop" or "my cellphone", like if it was one thing, they not usually separate the OS from the hardware in their minds.
Does anyone have any experience with Lambda School?
I am a student, so I can honestly say my path is not yet fixed and stone(I hope it remains this way). However, I do noticed while working and searching for computer science internship that most of them are geared towards web development. I believe that is due to several reasons:
On the contrary, web dev provides a nice middle ground. It has been around for a long time, so the technologies involving web dev is very diverse. Some are old like php while others are new like React and Node. It is constantly evolving, but there is always something for everyone regardless of your level of experience.
Disclaimer: these are more or less my observations as a computer science student during this time as such, it is subject to change.
Very good points. As a student, how much exposure have you had to the concept of career-pathing in general, is this explicitly discussed much?
I had a few classes that attempts to focus on the career side of the whole computer science program, but they are usually very broad and focused more on things that are applicable to any job market: interviews, writing a good resume, etc..
I fully believe that being able to chart your career path or at least a rudimentary map of which direction you are heading in is VERY important. However, it is an opportunity I have not yet received :(
I study CS and in 2 years, nothing about career-pathing. Our institute almost asumes that we'll end up doing research, somehow. Usually us as student will talk with different professionals and convince them to come to give a talk or something. Our professors don't talk much about the industry, they probably don't know much because have been in the academic branch for so long.
While I was a student there was almost no mention of career-pathing. The only exposure we got to the real world was through optional internships. Once you got your paper it was honestly up to you on where you went; not that we really knew where we could go. Most of, if not all, of my cohort were employed by the people we did our internships with.
Ye same, when I was in college doing CS, 3 years ago, there was no career-pathing (that i was aware of at least).
It was pure luck my classmate had a parent in a company looking for web dev interns, and were kind enough to think of me.
I got it and it helped soooo much getting a job straight out of college, but of course only in web dev.