As someone who is currently enrolled in the Flatiron bootcamp, I've a few takes on this:
1) Yeah the schedule of learned you mentioned is insane, but can't you just do an online bootcamp and learn the material more thoroughly as you go...? I mean, I know the tag line is always "Get a career in X months" but in reality, if you personally don't want to just glaze over some topics, you CAN go deeper at your own pace in an online curriculum. And it will make you a better dev for when you are ready to look for a job.
2) The idea of there being a sea of grads - sure, but there is an ocean of self-taught devs! Either you're one of hundreds of bootcamp grads, or one of thousands for non-grads/self-taught people. Having something say you completed a course / certification means a lot for some companies though, which is why I ended up going w/ it instead of striking out on my own. It's not a BA in Comp Sci but it's something rather than nothing.
3) I find that the curriculum is actually very helpful. You don't know what you don't know, and in a self-study situation you may simply to be aware of something. Having a group of students or a TA get on a call and go over stuff w/ you or to support when you hit a wall and can't StackOverflow your way out of it... it's just nice.
4) "Worth" is quite subjective. The way I look at it, if you're making 35k a year, paying down 17k (online bootcamp w/ support was 13k though) to make 60k+ starting makes total sense. If you are brave enough to make the leap? That's a personal choice.
If anything I think the bootcamp grads that came before "softened" the market for others like myself, so now it's less about proving that a bootcamp is a legit thing to a company... everyone knows what they are / had experience with grads from them. So there is that.
Passionate about building great technology and connecting with people to create positive change. Happy to answer questions about transitioning to tech. Find me on Twitter @lounecl
Thanks for taking the time to write out such a detailed comment
These programs are always going to be challenging. I specifically took issue with the Flatiron curriculum because learning 4 languages/ frameworks + sinatra/rack is unrealistic. This is prob why so many bootcamps opt to teach 1 language frontend and backend
Very true. When you can get a degree for less than attending a 3 month program, the pricing structure needs to be reassessed. The value / cost ratio doesn't work for me
A very good point. Leaving the pootcamp, I felt much more comfortable deciding what to learn next, but I honestly wonder if a Udemy course could have served the same function
Def subjective. Personally, I'm looking at knowledge imparted + hours of lecture + one on one support per dollar. $17k works out to $1,416 / week of instruction. For that much money, you could just as well hire a tutor for one on one instruction
Since writing this article, I've heard from people who have had amazing bootcamp experiences and horrendous experiences. I really hope that Flatiron has addressed many of the issues my cohortmates and I dealt with. I also hope you walk away with an amazing education.
But especially knowing what I know now, I can't justify paying that much money for the education I received. It's not to say that I didn't learn anything. Flatiron helped me find my footing in learning how to code. I also loved the structure of set schedules, being in a classroom, and getting to ask questions.
Personally, I still don't think it's the best use of that much money. That is why I started this series for people who want to learn and need the additional structure that a bootcamp provides, but don't have the ability to shell out that much money on a program that may or may not work for them.
I think our perception is also shaped by the fact that your experience was with the in-person bootcamp, whereas mine is with the online version of it. From the pricing to lack if individual attention - seems to primarily deal with the in-person version of bootcamps. If one can / chose to cover the same material online in the same amount of time (few months) as the in-class cohorts do, the online education would be way cheaper. At the other hand of that coin, since it's per month, if you take longer to actually learn the material it costs almost as much as the in-person one. For me, the material has to be learned at the end of the day, so it was a choice between taking my time and learning at my pace (longer) but being more thorough, or to blast myself with a firehose of code in a short time but still be relatively new to it all when it's over.
With the online version of it, I don't necessarily have to rush through the content and then learn more about all the things covered. I can just put the bootcamp on pause while I go and learn more of Sinatra or Dbs or w/e they only briefly covered, since I know the job place will actually test if you know it well vs just "we covered this in week 3" lol.
I'll check out your channel though since I do use free resources along side the bootcamp, and since you've graduated from the same program you may have useful information for me.
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As someone who is currently enrolled in the Flatiron bootcamp, I've a few takes on this:
1) Yeah the schedule of learned you mentioned is insane, but can't you just do an online bootcamp and learn the material more thoroughly as you go...? I mean, I know the tag line is always "Get a career in X months" but in reality, if you personally don't want to just glaze over some topics, you CAN go deeper at your own pace in an online curriculum. And it will make you a better dev for when you are ready to look for a job.
2) The idea of there being a sea of grads - sure, but there is an ocean of self-taught devs! Either you're one of hundreds of bootcamp grads, or one of thousands for non-grads/self-taught people. Having something say you completed a course / certification means a lot for some companies though, which is why I ended up going w/ it instead of striking out on my own. It's not a BA in Comp Sci but it's something rather than nothing.
3) I find that the curriculum is actually very helpful. You don't know what you don't know, and in a self-study situation you may simply to be aware of something. Having a group of students or a TA get on a call and go over stuff w/ you or to support when you hit a wall and can't StackOverflow your way out of it... it's just nice.
4) "Worth" is quite subjective. The way I look at it, if you're making 35k a year, paying down 17k (online bootcamp w/ support was 13k though) to make 60k+ starting makes total sense. If you are brave enough to make the leap? That's a personal choice.
If anything I think the bootcamp grads that came before "softened" the market for others like myself, so now it's less about proving that a bootcamp is a legit thing to a company... everyone knows what they are / had experience with grads from them. So there is that.
Thanks for taking the time to write out such a detailed comment
Since writing this article, I've heard from people who have had amazing bootcamp experiences and horrendous experiences. I really hope that Flatiron has addressed many of the issues my cohortmates and I dealt with. I also hope you walk away with an amazing education.
But especially knowing what I know now, I can't justify paying that much money for the education I received. It's not to say that I didn't learn anything. Flatiron helped me find my footing in learning how to code. I also loved the structure of set schedules, being in a classroom, and getting to ask questions.
Personally, I still don't think it's the best use of that much money. That is why I started this series for people who want to learn and need the additional structure that a bootcamp provides, but don't have the ability to shell out that much money on a program that may or may not work for them.
I think our perception is also shaped by the fact that your experience was with the in-person bootcamp, whereas mine is with the online version of it. From the pricing to lack if individual attention - seems to primarily deal with the in-person version of bootcamps. If one can / chose to cover the same material online in the same amount of time (few months) as the in-class cohorts do, the online education would be way cheaper. At the other hand of that coin, since it's per month, if you take longer to actually learn the material it costs almost as much as the in-person one. For me, the material has to be learned at the end of the day, so it was a choice between taking my time and learning at my pace (longer) but being more thorough, or to blast myself with a firehose of code in a short time but still be relatively new to it all when it's over.
With the online version of it, I don't necessarily have to rush through the content and then learn more about all the things covered. I can just put the bootcamp on pause while I go and learn more of Sinatra or Dbs or w/e they only briefly covered, since I know the job place will actually test if you know it well vs just "we covered this in week 3" lol.
I'll check out your channel though since I do use free resources along side the bootcamp, and since you've graduated from the same program you may have useful information for me.