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Discussion on: The Unbearable Whiteness of Coding

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blindfish3 profile image
Ben Calder

End the group think and end racism, thanks

Please direct your comments to those people who are actively racist (yes - they do exist); rather than those who are pointing out the fallacy of your argument.

We should be discussing individuals and their capabilities and not attributes of people.

Consider the possibility that societal influences will affect the characteristics (and capabilities) of an individual. Then consider that societal influences are (in many countries) stacked largely in favour of their white population.

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rolfstreefkerk profile image
Rolf Streefkerk

the irony is that you and yours that believe in this identity politics are actively using discrimination on a daily basis based on people's attributes such as color. This will never end because in your eyes this is what is the make up of groups. It's a never ending cycle to "fix" issues.

The issues stem from societal problems such as education, safety and jobs. The issue is not about a color on someone's skin. You want to fix racism, you want to fix "inequality", fix societal issues like this.

There's no quick fix that your identity politics seems to think to provide, it will only make thinks worse and the sooner people realize this the better off we'll all be.

Judging people by its cover has never been a good idea, why start now

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blindfish3 profile image
Ben Calder

Judging people by its cover has never been a good idea, why start now

As I already said: direct your facile and redundant argument to the racists who already do judge and group people by their colour. This isn't a chicken or egg argument. "Identity politics" wouldn't need to exist if racism didn't exist. End of story.

However I don't disagree that addressing societal inequality across the board is a sensible way forward. I just don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that these issues dis-proportionally affect Black people. Nor do I think it wrong to try and make reparations for past injustices that continue to have an impact to this day.

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rolfstreefkerk profile image
Rolf Streefkerk

they're hardly redundant, it's the irony that exactly your line of thinking is promoting the segregation of people by their attributes. We've seen in the past what that can result in, and it's not pretty.
This ideology is oppressing freedom of speech, curbing speech, demanding that my skin color is relevant and other attributes like my sex. It's a disturbing ideology that I can never agree with.
Solving issues does not begin with labelling people, as said history is full of answers this is clearly the wrong road to travel.

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blindfish3 profile image
Ben Calder

Sadly your reply is still lingering in my notifications panel; so I figured I might as well send you a response.

You are an utter hypocrite and the complete embodiment of 'white privilege'. Whilst you complain about threats to your freedom of speech, people are suffering far worse consequences (including death) because of the colour of their skin. You say identity politics is a "disturbing ideology" and I agree it has that potential; because what is racism if not the most negative form of identity politics? Yet you have failed to acknowledge that and instead focus your negativity on a positive movement that is simply asking for equality. You come across as either a racist arguing to protect your privileged position; or at best a deluded idealist totally detached from the realities of everyday life. Sadly the former seems far more likely.

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rolfstreefkerk profile image
Rolf Streefkerk

Of course you apply the racist card again, which again proves my point. You think everyone discriminates and you'll make it a point to separate people based on the color of their skin ("white privilege") or whatever else suits your purpose, because its ingrained in your thinking and perception of the world.
You believe you fight against racism, but you apply discrimination to suit whatever agenda you have. How's that for hypocrisy.

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blindfish3 profile image
Ben Calder

Nonsense. White people have established for themselves a very comfortable position in the world - largely based on a history of exploiting people of colour - and they use the power that comes with that privileged position to exclude access to others. I'm not discriminating against white people by making that point (I am also white European by the way); I'm simply acknowledging a historical fact: you and I have both benefited from the wrongs our ancestors committed and the wrongs our governments continue to commit to this day.

The naive idea that in time things will sort themselves out if we educate people etc. is ridiculous. Did the Suffragettes sit idly by and leave it to the men in power to realise they were at fault and fix the system? Did Black South Africans accept their lot and wait for some form of sanity to return to their country? No. They protested; and in doing so - following your twisted logic - 'discriminated' against those who were oppressing them; and rightly so.

Black Americans have been fighting for equality from the time our ancestors dragged them to that country as slaves. The idea that as whites we have nothing to answer for is absurd; and playing the discrimination card in defence of our position is utter hypocrisy.

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rolfstreefkerk profile image
Rolf Streefkerk

I expected you would react this way, and you would use the other nonsense argument that this group is responsible for the fate of another group. History is a bit more complicated than that, read a book.

What this is really about is personal responsibility and this thinking of yours takes that away and says the "white man" is evil and needs to be punished. It's absurd in every way.

But you go ahead and punish yourself, I'm not participating in this ridiculous notion.

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blindfish3 profile image
Ben Calder

the other nonsense argument that this group is responsible for the fate of another group

How is it nonsense to acknowledge what white Europeans have done in the past? Of course history is complicated; but that's precisely the point: events from hundreds - even thousands - of years ago still have repercussions today: they influence our customs; behaviour and language. But you seem to be arguing that it's wrong to suggest that we have benefited as a result of actions in the past that any reasonable person today would find morally repugnant?

The point on personal responsibility is totally lost on me. Who said anything about punishment; or white men being evil? No-one is trying to find you personally responsible for the actions of your long-dead countrymen; and I'm certainly not punishing myself. I'm simply acknowledging that I have (indirectly) benefited from my country's dark history and that I am willing to take some action to redress the imbalance that has caused.

...I'm not participating in this ridiculous notion.

Of course not; because it serves you very well to believe you got where you are through merit alone and that your county's history has no bearing on that; which brings us right back to you being the embodiment of white privilege. Congratulations. Enjoy your privileged life...

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rolfstreefkerk profile image
Rolf Streefkerk • Edited

Mate, read a book. Every skin color under the sun have committed injustices against every other skin color. it is irrelevant, but only relevant in your religion of identity politics.

I can't begin to change your mind because you follow a religious belief that is absurd, good luck.

Another thing, you my find certain groups prosper because of a set of principles they have operated from have resulted in better societies. Captalism and the free markets have created more wealth and prosperity than any other system and for good reason. That you choose to blame the "white man" for its prospertiy only because of exploitation shows how vile your religion is and takes away all the positivity that has been created in western society.

As said, good luck.

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bytebodger profile image
Adam Nathaniel Davis

Any time someone pulls out the "I don't see color" or the "I don't care if someone is black, white, or purple" cliches, it's a clear sign that you're wasting your breath if you try to engage with them. In their candy-coated universe, the magical power of their own enlightenment is enough to make any talk of racism absurd.

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blindfish3 profile image
Ben Calder

I know; but sometimes I think it's worth a try...
TBH I'm finding it pretty depressing seeing some of the responses you're getting; so think I'll be stepping away from the toxic responses for now.

But thanks for the article. I thought it was very well put.