If it takes few man-months and hundreds of thousands of $s to drink that tea, you'd better have a very good reason, very eloquently explained.
Writing code is a bad thing to do. You must always justify it.
as an example in which small functions are a core part of the language
Nope, there are very frequent cases where you'll have a large pattern matching, probably spanning across few screens.
So popular in fact that in 20 years in the industry I've never met someone outside academia that use them.
Please stop referring to your 20 years, or I'll start suspecting they're 1 year repeated 20 times.
I've been around for far longer, seen things. I perfectly understand what kind of industry you're talking about, and it's a very bad example. Nobody should ever try to reproduce methods common in such an industry. There are places in this industry where people do things in a much more organised way.
Please stop referring to your 20 years, or I'll start suspecting they're 1 year repeated 20 times.
Yet you can repeat your mantra 40 times. Everything is wrong except the way you do it, got it. You disagree with everything, nothing productive is being said and everything unproductive is being repeated.
It's not a "mantra", it's an objective observation. Your views of how this industry works are very evidently limited. You can get this kind of a tunnel vision only if you stick to something extremely repetitive and dull.
Again, how many Jupyter notebook users are out there? Your OOPish religion is a pile of crap, and you're way too deep in your zealotry to be able to admit it.
Once again, hundreds of thousands (at the very least) of the Jupyter users would laugh in your face.
Just have a courage to admit that you simply don't know enough to be able to reason about code quality and development practices. That'd be sufficient. And then start learning from scratch. And never again touch anything produced by this "uncle bob" unhinged preacher.
Also, please avoid having any strong opinions until you can reach the level of code quality of, say, TeX. As of Aug 2019, it have 8 bugs found and fixed. Good luck getting to this level of quality with this "clean code" religion of yours.
So you're admitting that you're deaf to all the rational arguments? That's exactly what zealotry is. That's exactly why the rest of the industry hates everyone who dares to even mention uncle bob.
zealotry: fanatical and uncompromising pursuit of religious, political, or other ideals; fanaticism.
Ideas such as literate programming.
Nobody is defending Uncle Bob. Asking you not to be insulting to and about everyone and anyone who doesn't share your idea that the solution to all programming problems is a paradigm rejected by the industry 30 years ago is NOT defending a single person. Nobody is being "fanatical" or "uncompromising" about the subject at hand, which is the value of comments in modern code. We (that is, everyone but you) are in fact having a polite discussion where I -as the proposer of said topic- am playing devils advocate to suggestions to the contrary. The only fanaticism I see and the only one being uncompromising is the one calling people names and strongly insinuating everyone but themselves is stupid, uneducated and/or backwards. The one who is quite clearly "fanatic" and "uncompromising" about a hatred of any and all Uncle Bobs ideas and of LP.
Jupyter users would laugh in your face.
So you're admitting that you're deaf to all the rational arguments?
you simply don't know enough to be able to reason about code quality and development practices
this "uncle bob" unhinged preacher.
please avoid having any strong opinions until you can reach the level of code quality of
you're all beyond any redemption
Looks like you always worked with some truly awful programmers.
This coding part does not deserve even a tiniest fraction of attention it's getting
So if you could stop acting like a petulant child, we've heard your arguments. They are off topic, uninterested and the approach you are selling is dead! Feel free to consider us scolded and give up.
I mean, you've clearly been having this argument for years with zero success, give it up.
is a paradigm rejected by the industry 30 years ago
Ok, I got it, you enjoy being an obnoxious liar. It suits you, actually.
and the approach you are selling is dead
Do you really think that your incompetent opinion on this topic matters? Really? You're ignorant, and it's your choice. You can either try to learn, or stay ignorant.
And yes, you're exactly a very convincing example of why people hate uncle bob zealots.
Matters enough for you to spend three days arguing with me about it.
You're a lost cause, as I stated pretty much straight away that uncle bob fans are beyond any hope. I'm providing arguments for passers by who might otherwise get swayed by your destructive preaching.
Never once defended Bob in any way and that makes me a zealot.
You're defending his position on in-line comments - that's sufficient, given that it's pretty much a core tenet of his religion. If you walk like a clean code zealot and quack like a clean code zealot, you're a clean code zealot by all practical means.
Third time: I'm not an uncle bob fanatic or even a fan. Never once even slightly indicated that might be the case. I proposed one of his assertions as a discussion to which you have thrown yourself at.
your destructive preaching.
Haven't preached once. You however...
You're defending his position on in-line comments
I'm playing devils advocate with a single assertion to promote healthy, polite discussion.
If you walk like a clean code zealot and quack like a clean code zealot, you're a clean code zealot by all practical means.
Appear to lightly agree with something == zealot. Yes, exactly the same thing. For a mathematician your logic is shocking. I can see why you need so many comments in your code, because you're clearly incapable of anything but typing and endless stream of completely illogical tripe.
I wont be responding to anymore of your nonsensical rubbish.
I proposed one of his assertions as a discussion to which you have thrown yourself at.
Not just one, but the most controversial one, which also happens to be the core belief of his entire "clean code" system. Everything else is immaterial in comparison.
Haven't preached once.
You keep insisting on a lie that in-line comments get stale in no time, because developers are lazy. And you propose a solution of having all that documentation elsewhere, because somehow magically it won't get stale this way. Which is 100% identical to all the arguments of uncle bob and his unhinged followers. You walk like them, you quack like them, you're one of them. By definition. No matter what your motivation for taking this position is.
I'm playing devils advocate with a single assertion to promote healthy, polite discussion.
And you just demonstrated your own project that practices exactly what you preach here. So much for a devils advocate.
Also, what "healthy discussion" you're talking about, if you dismiss all the arguments of why the opposite approach works better as "trust me, I have 20 years of experience, so take my word that it's not how the industry works, it was abandoned 30 years ago, and don't you even dare to argue, because I have 20 years of experience" (and then repeat it a dozen of times more, in case if someone missed the super important fact that you have 20 years of experience). The funny thing here is that you honestly believe that you even have sufficient credibility to speak for the entire industry. Your attitude to arguments is as far from anything "healthy" as possible, so don't be surprised when people treat you like a troll.
Appear to lightly agree with something == zealot. Yes, exactly the same thing.
Not just "something", but the defining tenet of the religious system. Believing in the core beliefs of a religion makes you a follower. And the fact that you find this solid logic "shocking" is pretty much consistent with everything else - your OOP zealotry, your lack of experience, your misguided manners.
For further actions, you may consider blocking this person and/or reporting abuse
We're a place where coders share, stay up-to-date and grow their careers.
If it takes few man-months and hundreds of thousands of $s to drink that tea, you'd better have a very good reason, very eloquently explained.
Writing code is a bad thing to do. You must always justify it.
Nope, there are very frequent cases where you'll have a large pattern matching, probably spanning across few screens.
Please stop referring to your 20 years, or I'll start suspecting they're 1 year repeated 20 times.
I've been around for far longer, seen things. I perfectly understand what kind of industry you're talking about, and it's a very bad example. Nobody should ever try to reproduce methods common in such an industry. There are places in this industry where people do things in a much more organised way.
Yet you can repeat your mantra 40 times. Everything is wrong except the way you do it, got it. You disagree with everything, nothing productive is being said and everything unproductive is being repeated.
It's not a "mantra", it's an objective observation. Your views of how this industry works are very evidently limited. You can get this kind of a tunnel vision only if you stick to something extremely repetitive and dull.
from the guy selling a paradigm invented in 1983 and largely abandoned in 1984.
Again, how many Jupyter notebook users are out there? Your OOPish religion is a pile of crap, and you're way too deep in your zealotry to be able to admit it.
Go sell literate programming somewhere else. Nobody cares about your insulting, arrogant, ancient views.
Once again, hundreds of thousands (at the very least) of the Jupyter users would laugh in your face.
Just have a courage to admit that you simply don't know enough to be able to reason about code quality and development practices. That'd be sufficient. And then start learning from scratch. And never again touch anything produced by this "uncle bob" unhinged preacher.
Also, please avoid having any strong opinions until you can reach the level of code quality of, say, TeX. As of Aug 2019, it have 8 bugs found and fixed. Good luck getting to this level of quality with this "clean code" religion of yours.
Whenever you are finished repeating yourself, feel free to go find a discussion relevant to your dead paradigm.
So you're admitting that you're deaf to all the rational arguments? That's exactly what zealotry is. That's exactly why the rest of the industry hates everyone who dares to even mention uncle bob.
Ideas such as literate programming.
Nobody is defending Uncle Bob. Asking you not to be insulting to and about everyone and anyone who doesn't share your idea that the solution to all programming problems is a paradigm rejected by the industry 30 years ago is NOT defending a single person.
Nobody is being "fanatical" or "uncompromising" about the subject at hand, which is the value of comments in modern code. We (that is, everyone but you) are in fact having a polite discussion where I -as the proposer of said topic- am playing devils advocate to suggestions to the contrary. The only fanaticism I see and the only one being uncompromising is the one calling people names and strongly insinuating everyone but themselves is stupid, uneducated and/or backwards. The one who is quite clearly "fanatic" and "uncompromising" about a hatred of any and all Uncle Bobs ideas and of LP.
So if you could stop acting like a petulant child, we've heard your arguments. They are off topic, uninterested and the approach you are selling is dead! Feel free to consider us scolded and give up.
I mean, you've clearly been having this argument for years with zero success, give it up.
Ok, I got it, you enjoy being an obnoxious liar. It suits you, actually.
Do you really think that your incompetent opinion on this topic matters? Really? You're ignorant, and it's your choice. You can either try to learn, or stay ignorant.
And yes, you're exactly a very convincing example of why people hate uncle bob zealots.
Matters enough for you to spend three days arguing with me about it.
Once again. Never once defended Bob in any way and that makes me a zealot.
Give. Up. Griffiths.
You're a lost cause, as I stated pretty much straight away that uncle bob fans are beyond any hope. I'm providing arguments for passers by who might otherwise get swayed by your destructive preaching.
You're defending his position on in-line comments - that's sufficient, given that it's pretty much a core tenet of his religion. If you walk like a clean code zealot and quack like a clean code zealot, you're a clean code zealot by all practical means.
Third time: I'm not an uncle bob fanatic or even a fan. Never once even slightly indicated that might be the case. I proposed one of his assertions as a discussion to which you have thrown yourself at.
Haven't preached once. You however...
I'm playing devils advocate with a single assertion to promote healthy, polite discussion.
Appear to lightly agree with something == zealot. Yes, exactly the same thing. For a mathematician your logic is shocking. I can see why you need so many comments in your code, because you're clearly incapable of anything but typing and endless stream of completely illogical tripe.
I wont be responding to anymore of your nonsensical rubbish.
Not just one, but the most controversial one, which also happens to be the core belief of his entire "clean code" system. Everything else is immaterial in comparison.
You keep insisting on a lie that in-line comments get stale in no time, because developers are lazy. And you propose a solution of having all that documentation elsewhere, because somehow magically it won't get stale this way. Which is 100% identical to all the arguments of uncle bob and his unhinged followers. You walk like them, you quack like them, you're one of them. By definition. No matter what your motivation for taking this position is.
And you just demonstrated your own project that practices exactly what you preach here. So much for a devils advocate.
Also, what "healthy discussion" you're talking about, if you dismiss all the arguments of why the opposite approach works better as "trust me, I have 20 years of experience, so take my word that it's not how the industry works, it was abandoned 30 years ago, and don't you even dare to argue, because I have 20 years of experience" (and then repeat it a dozen of times more, in case if someone missed the super important fact that you have 20 years of experience). The funny thing here is that you honestly believe that you even have sufficient credibility to speak for the entire industry. Your attitude to arguments is as far from anything "healthy" as possible, so don't be surprised when people treat you like a troll.
Not just "something", but the defining tenet of the religious system. Believing in the core beliefs of a religion makes you a follower. And the fact that you find this solid logic "shocking" is pretty much consistent with everything else - your OOP zealotry, your lack of experience, your misguided manners.