"It will make installation easier" - for those who know how to use and troubleshoot Docker.
The point of doing this local setup is to get beginners learning immediately without any distractions.
Also it'll require installation of docker and/or docker-compose which requires WSL2 setup for windows users (as I assume most users are) all those steps are a lot of hassel for any beginner especially those running Win32 OS. Not to mention it also takes up a LOT of resources (memory, power e.t.c) and needs much more data (internet) connection to do all that (which nullifies the entire point of the post which is inadequate internet access) than the proposed setup here in this post.
Learning how to install software is a distraction? sudo apt-get install docker seems pretty easy to me. Installing software is the first thing a newbie needs to learn. Besides FreeCodeCamp will have them installing additional software anyway (if they want to follow along with the lesson). Troubleshooting just Docker instead of mongo and npm sounds easier to me. Not to mention docker containers are disposable so a newbie is less prone to screwing up the underlying OS. And your assumption that most users use Win32 is incorrect, I personally have no use for Win32 and deploy it on NONE of my machines. I use docker on my raspberry pi B+, armv7 with 900mb ram, that sounds pretty low power to me, so I imagine docker will do just fine on a nice beefy laptop.
Well they are going to have to download npm, mongo, and the FreeCodeCamp git repos anyway why not have it in one nice neat bundle? As you can see in some more recent posts to this article people will have trouble installing the individual pieces alone.
Learning how to install software is a distraction? - Yes, it is a BIG distraction for beginners who just want to learn HTML, CSS, JS. sudo apt-get install docker seems pretty easy to me - Do you even know what you're talking about? Have ever maintained an Open Source project or even been on Github? Because if you have, you'll know software that works well for you will definitely not work well for others INCLUDING DOCKER. There's ALWAYS going to be users that have trouble using software would rather put on extra burden on beginners that just want to get started in coding and on the author (because he'll have to be the one troubleshooting and answering everyone's question on their Docker problems just to learn HTML, CSS and JS).
If you've been around beginners you'll know overwhelming them with tooling they are not going to be using at the stage they are at is the last thing you'll want to do.
Installing software is the first thing a newbie needs to learn. - NPM and Git is enough tooling to learn for EVERY coding "newbie"
Troubleshooting just Docker instead of mongo and npm sounds easier to me. - You're just contradicting yourself and admitting to my point in the previous comment which says: "It will make installation easier" - for those who know how to use and troubleshoot Docker.
Not to mention docker containers are disposable so a newbie is less prone to screwing up the underlying OS. And your assumption that most users use Win32 is incorrect, I personally have no use for Win32 and deploy it on NONE of my machines. - You're just seeing stuff from only your own experience and forgetting that every user's setup and hardware is different so there's always going to extra troubleshooting if they going to be using Docker.
Also you didn't read that part of my comment properly so I'll repost here: "Also it'll require installation of docker and/or docker-compose which requires WSL2 setup for windows users (as I assume most users are) all those steps are a lot of hassel for any beginner especially those running Win32 OS." For clarification I said users are mostly going to be using Windows (not Win32) which will require WSL2 setup (an hassel on it own), read the docs first incase you want to argue this point Install Docker Desktop on Windows and for those using low end Win32 OS laptops it's officially not supported as you could see in the docs and if you want to know the kind of hassel beginners would go through see here.
"so I imagine docker will do just fine on a nice beefy laptop." No it won't like you said you're imagining. And like I said Not to mention it also takes up a LOT of resources (memory, power e.t.c) and needs much more data (internet) connection to do all that (which nullifies the entire point of the post which is inadequate internet access) than the proposed setup here in this post. You also didn't address the point where it takes much more internet connection to setup successfully.
why not have it in one nice neat bundle? - Its not going to be a nice experience for everyone because you don't know everyone's hardware setup.
As you can see in some more recent posts to this article people will have trouble installing the individual pieces alone. - You didn't even read the solution to that problem which was a common npm problem that: The person wanted to run an npm clean-install in a directory without a package.json file which is bound to not work.
The problems they are going to encounter using the proposed setup are those common these tooling which can be troubleshooted relatively easily and isn't out of the scope of what they want to learn or are learning already.
I get your point and for coders experienced with Docker yes it would be easier and I wasn't aiming to start an argument but to help others see the possible downsides of using Docker for coding beginners. Also if I was provocative in passing my points accept my apology 🙏.
I'll also say to Stephen that if he sees an advantage of using Docker for beginners he could give it a try, already there's an hype around it so some learners may want to see how its like and how its being used and it'll also be an addition to their skill set (which was what made me learn it in the first place).
Have a great day too 😀!
I must admit I was under the assumption that Dock Desktop was a freely available app for Win32 users.
I have since found out it this not the case. Now I understand why it may be painful to install docker on Win32 for some users, and now agree with you on some of your points.
If you dig through the changelogs of all the Ubuntu and Debian packages you will find my name on one or two of them. So yea I know about contributing to open source projects, and how hard it is to get software to install/remove /purge from a system consistently. Some times it's fun, some times it's not so fun.
But in the end learning is the objective. I have learned from this discussion as I hope others have.
"It will make installation easier" - for those who know how to use and troubleshoot Docker.
The point of doing this local setup is to get beginners learning immediately without any distractions.
Also it'll require installation of docker and/or docker-compose which requires WSL2 setup for windows users (as I assume most users are) all those steps are a lot of hassel for any beginner especially those running Win32 OS. Not to mention it also takes up a LOT of resources (memory, power e.t.c) and needs much more data (internet) connection to do all that (which nullifies the entire point of the post which is inadequate internet access) than the proposed setup here in this post.
Learning how to install software is a distraction? sudo apt-get install docker seems pretty easy to me. Installing software is the first thing a newbie needs to learn. Besides FreeCodeCamp will have them installing additional software anyway (if they want to follow along with the lesson). Troubleshooting just Docker instead of mongo and npm sounds easier to me. Not to mention docker containers are disposable so a newbie is less prone to screwing up the underlying OS. And your assumption that most users use Win32 is incorrect, I personally have no use for Win32 and deploy it on NONE of my machines. I use docker on my raspberry pi B+, armv7 with 900mb ram, that sounds pretty low power to me, so I imagine docker will do just fine on a nice beefy laptop.
Well they are going to have to download npm, mongo, and the FreeCodeCamp git repos anyway why not have it in one nice neat bundle? As you can see in some more recent posts to this article people will have trouble installing the individual pieces alone.
Learning how to install software is a distraction?- Yes, it is a BIG distraction for beginners who just want to learn HTML, CSS, JS.sudo apt-get install docker seems pretty easy to me- Do you even know what you're talking about? Have ever maintained an Open Source project or even been on Github? Because if you have, you'll know software that works well for you will definitely not work well for others INCLUDING DOCKER. There's ALWAYS going to be users that have trouble using software would rather put on extra burden on beginners that just want to get started in coding and on the author (because he'll have to be the one troubleshooting and answering everyone's question on their Docker problems just to learn HTML, CSS and JS).If you've been around beginners you'll know overwhelming them with tooling they are not going to be using at the stage they are at is the last thing you'll want to do.
Installing software is the first thing a newbie needs to learn.- NPM and Git is enough tooling to learn for EVERY coding "newbie"Troubleshooting just Docker instead of mongo and npm sounds easier to me.- You're just contradicting yourself and admitting to my point in the previous comment which says:"It will make installation easier" - for those who know how to use and troubleshoot Docker.Not to mention docker containers are disposable so a newbie is less prone to screwing up the underlying OS. And your assumption that most users use Win32 is incorrect, I personally have no use for Win32 and deploy it on NONE of my machines.- You're just seeing stuff from only your own experience and forgetting that every user's setup and hardware is different so there's always going to extra troubleshooting if they going to be using Docker.Also you didn't read that part of my comment properly so I'll repost here:
"Also it'll require installation of docker and/or docker-compose which requires WSL2 setup for windows users (as I assume most users are) all those steps are a lot of hassel for any beginner especially those running Win32 OS."For clarification I said users are mostly going to be using Windows (not Win32) which will require WSL2 setup (an hassel on it own), read the docs first incase you want to argue this point Install Docker Desktop on Windows and for those using low end Win32 OS laptops it's officially not supported as you could see in the docs and if you want to know the kind of hassel beginners would go through see here."so I imagine docker will do just fine on a nice beefy laptop." No it won't like you said you're imagining. And like I said
Not to mention it also takes up a LOT of resources (memory, power e.t.c) and needs much more data (internet) connection to do all that (which nullifies the entire point of the post which is inadequate internet access) than the proposed setup here in this post.You also didn't address the point where it takes much more internet connection to setup successfully.why not have it in one nice neat bundle?- Its not going to be a nice experience for everyone because you don't know everyone's hardware setup.As you can see in some more recent posts to this article people will have trouble installing the individual pieces alone.- You didn't even read the solution to that problem which was a common npm problem that: The person wanted to run annpm clean-installin a directory without a package.json file which is bound to not work.The problems they are going to encounter using the proposed setup are those common these tooling which can be troubleshooted relatively easily and isn't out of the scope of what they want to learn or are learning already.
lets agree to disagree
It was nothing more than a simple suggestion not worthy of such a heated discussion. Ultimately it is up to Stephen. Have a good day.
I get your point and for coders experienced with Docker yes it would be easier and I wasn't aiming to start an argument but to help others see the possible downsides of using Docker for coding beginners. Also if I was provocative in passing my points accept my apology 🙏.
I'll also say to Stephen that if he sees an advantage of using Docker for beginners he could give it a try, already there's an hype around it so some learners may want to see how its like and how its being used and it'll also be an addition to their skill set (which was what made me learn it in the first place).
Have a great day too 😀!
I must admit I was under the assumption that Dock Desktop was a freely available app for Win32 users.
I have since found out it this not the case. Now I understand why it may be painful to install docker on Win32 for some users, and now agree with you on some of your points.
If you dig through the changelogs of all the Ubuntu and Debian packages you will find my name on one or two of them. So yea I know about contributing to open source projects, and how hard it is to get software to install/remove /purge from a system consistently. Some times it's fun, some times it's not so fun.
But in the end learning is the objective. I have learned from this discussion as I hope others have.
happy coding
Wow it must be great contributing to such important projects!
Yeah installing a lot of multi-platform software is sometimes an hassel on Windows machines and sometimes worse on Win32.
I also agree using a Docker image is a neat way to do things and a fun way to challenge oneself.
Happy coding also!