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Discussion on: Helping Men in Tech Help Women In Tech

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isaacleimgruber profile image
IsaacLeimgruber

And another thing. We are devs, young or old, but if our community does not take serious time to go through the statistics to give some shades to its words then don't expect anyone in the world to make informed decisions. I say this because I feel this post is overgeneralizing and not strongly backed up. If it is purely anecdotal please mention it but if your aim is bigger then please quote because we as a quite educated community should have higher expectations towards the informations we spread. We are the ones that manipulate the data the most, no one will do it better than us. If this community defends truth and nothing else and wants to shed light on social issue like this then I think it is fair to do it right.

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jrohatiner profile image
Judith Author

There is a yearly survey by Pew that you can see here:

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/...

It is one of many surveys that are interesting. I would welcome a list of sources that look at the data and if you have any links you want to share that would be a great contribution to this discussion.

I did point out that I'm not an expert in the social sciences - I only know that I want to be part of the solution. These are not generalizations. Its widely agreed that this is happening all around us.

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isaacleimgruber profile image
IsaacLeimgruber

We don't need to be social science experts, we need to be able to read stats. Plain and simple. It happening all around us and you using the word "manterruption" are two very distinct things and the second is toxic. Even worse, I would argue that it advocates against what you want. You want women in the workplace to be seen as individuals by their peers and not like a group of persons that can perform low levels taks? Right, then consider men as individuals

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rouzbeh84 profile image
rouzbeh

The reason you don't see these 'facts' you seek is that more often than not don't release these numbers unless prompted by external pressure, internal issues that leak, or outright lawsuits against them for these types of practices.

It seems the considerations about the magnitude of the problem is quite the same among men and women.

How did you come to this conclusion? The % of people who thought it was a major vs minor problem has a huge disparity.

Even though I'm sure I won't get a decent response here and will probably let it go after this given your incomprehensible repetitive bashing of what was outlined in the post, I still wanted to point out that it is definitely people with mindsets like your own who persist and advance these problems by thinking they are overly objective of everything. This desire for 'facts' or data that would still never convince you not only will never truly exist. More unfortunately, it also makes you rally against anyone trying to pursue any sort of positive change whether they are victims of it or advocates of which I am both. Good luck on your quest of data you will more than likely find ways to refute due to personal bias of how it was gathered, modeled, or presented.

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isaacleimgruber profile image
IsaacLeimgruber

It is like you have no concerns about the actual reality at all. In this debate I have never seen anyone actually try to find coherent and reasonable reasons why this happens. Why? My point was that the article purposely sums the major and minor case to create a bigger sensation which is dishonest plain and simple. If you feel attacked at the first question on your dogma then maybe we have another problem

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isaacleimgruber profile image
IsaacLeimgruber

And I got to say I don't agree with you yet I won't go into personal judgement. As far as I am concerned, I know at least 5 arguments of people supporting the existence of a wage gap of magnitude around 20% between men and women. Can you say the same for the opposing camp?

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isaacleimgruber profile image
IsaacLeimgruber

I read your link and I am very saddened. But first I will point out that the two redactors of your article are highly biased towards female issues and I won't argue why unless you ask as it is quite obvious. I read in the article the following thing: 44% of women consider discrimination in the tech is a major problem, 36% a minor problem and the rest...we have no idea. The article presents the numbers as follows : 80% of women in tech think discrimination in tech is a problem. Well the problem is biased conclusions. It seems the considerations about the magnitude of the problem is quite the same among men and women. I would also argue that the current socio-political climate does not help getting an objective opinion on the subject and that a survey on "How people feel" should be expected to give these results, it be actual wide discrimination or not. It would be more interesting to obtain facts. How many times proportionately to the gender repartition in tech does a woman is the lead of a project? Are there rational explanations in case of disparity? But I see none of this.