I guess I have some thoughts on that. I think DX is overvalued, but I think the focus on it from tool builders isn't. Honestly it is why all of this stuff exists. Even Qwik. Otherwise go vanilla over some PHP or whatever. I generally say UX over DX, but the truth is there is always some way to make better performance, some lower level you can go, but the challenge is making it accessible.
Even if the focus is too far, it's a very hard place to step back from. Almost table stakes to have that DX story. I don't see unless we hit something critical for that to change. So it won't, for now. More solutions continue to get more complicated. It's concerning to me.
I think there are steps in the right direction, though. I haven't used Solid, but IMO Svelte (despite being a variation on the theme of complex local tool stacks and compiling to rather than authoring browser compatible code) is a few degrees different in a good way, especially if you used Rollup instead of Webpack (or use SvelteKit, now). The design and results seem to make fewer extreme tradeoffs between UX and DX. There's definitely still a big ol' industry wide problem, but this next generation of things slowly gaining prominence give me some hope. 'Course, I've said that before and it's still, um, the way it is, mostly.
I'm not allergic to build steps obviously, and I think they achieve things otherwise basically impossible. That new tooling might hide the complexity but it doesn't change the nature of it.
My concern about complexity is more on SSR/Hydration/Compilation side. It is exceedingly hard to achieve what we want without more advanced compilers. Solid compiles but only JSX, just like React and most historical JS frameworks. There is something nice there from the portability standpoint and that there is a clear division between JavaScript and your DSL. You can pick it up use as much or as little as you want and slice it however you want.
What seems to be coming is that we will need compilation to re-order end user code. This troubles me. Svelte, React Forget, Marko, Qwik.. maybe soon Solid.. I've been trying to see if there is another path without handing the keys over. But where I am right now it looks unlikely. So I'm going to attack it piecewise.
So it isn't about build step existing. But figuring out how we can make sense of the code we write. Is it still JavaScript? Maybe the answer is it shouldn't be and we need all encompassing DSLs but I have to ask the question.
On the positive performance is getting some attention again which is good. But it's 2 sides of the same coin.
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I guess I have some thoughts on that. I think DX is overvalued, but I think the focus on it from tool builders isn't. Honestly it is why all of this stuff exists. Even Qwik. Otherwise go vanilla over some PHP or whatever. I generally say UX over DX, but the truth is there is always some way to make better performance, some lower level you can go, but the challenge is making it accessible.
Even if the focus is too far, it's a very hard place to step back from. Almost table stakes to have that DX story. I don't see unless we hit something critical for that to change. So it won't, for now. More solutions continue to get more complicated. It's concerning to me.
I think there are steps in the right direction, though. I haven't used Solid, but IMO Svelte (despite being a variation on the theme of complex local tool stacks and compiling to rather than authoring browser compatible code) is a few degrees different in a good way, especially if you used Rollup instead of Webpack (or use SvelteKit, now). The design and results seem to make fewer extreme tradeoffs between UX and DX. There's definitely still a big ol' industry wide problem, but this next generation of things slowly gaining prominence give me some hope. 'Course, I've said that before and it's still, um, the way it is, mostly.
I'm not allergic to build steps obviously, and I think they achieve things otherwise basically impossible. That new tooling might hide the complexity but it doesn't change the nature of it.
My concern about complexity is more on SSR/Hydration/Compilation side. It is exceedingly hard to achieve what we want without more advanced compilers. Solid compiles but only JSX, just like React and most historical JS frameworks. There is something nice there from the portability standpoint and that there is a clear division between JavaScript and your DSL. You can pick it up use as much or as little as you want and slice it however you want.
What seems to be coming is that we will need compilation to re-order end user code. This troubles me. Svelte, React Forget, Marko, Qwik.. maybe soon Solid.. I've been trying to see if there is another path without handing the keys over. But where I am right now it looks unlikely. So I'm going to attack it piecewise.
So it isn't about build step existing. But figuring out how we can make sense of the code we write. Is it still JavaScript? Maybe the answer is it shouldn't be and we need all encompassing DSLs but I have to ask the question.
On the positive performance is getting some attention again which is good. But it's 2 sides of the same coin.