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Discussion on: Is Ubuntu Or Fedora A Better Distro For Programmers?

xexyl profile image
xexzy • Edited

dnf is still awful for administrators.

The logging is a bloody nightmare. Even the devs admit that it wasn't ready in what they wanted when they released it (see below). They actually suggest too that there's an analogue to /var/log/yum.log - in dnf. No there ruddy well isn't. Not at all. It's a joke.

They say they think that users (as if installing software is a 'users' thing?) prefer not having to write scripts yet (1) they gave a little script (because their helper command was incomplete, see) and (2) it's presumptuous to say the least: who's to say the system is even up? What happened to remote logging? Sheer madness. But then again so is systemd and it's binary logging. And everything else for that matter.

Besides. Any administrator who's worth their salt is more than capable of writing scripts to parse things. Yet they think they know what's best for the users - making them use a tool built for them when before you could do it your own way - or not. Well you still can but you have to do clean-ups on the log file (which you didn't have to do in the past). Basically dnf is terrible.

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v6 profile image
πŸ¦„N BπŸ›‘

yum was used for like a decade before.

This reads like you mean to imply that "was used for like a decade before" is a bad thing, but I'm sure that wasn't how you meant it, no?

Ops greybeards & automationeers, have you met the likes of us?

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chiefnoah profile image
Noah Pederson

yum was aging rather poorly to be honest. I don't mean to imply that everything that has been around for decades needs to be replace or is bad, it's not (actually, I'd argue that's a good metric by which to measure the quality and usefulness of a piece of software). With the deprecation of Python 2, it needed a rewrite pretty badly, which is what I believe dnf is, basically a re-implementation of yum in a combination of Python 3 and C/C++. dnf is more of a generational improvement on yum than a full replacement, it's even got yum in it's full name.

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v6 profile image
πŸ¦„N BπŸ›‘

Seems like a trade of features for performance, as the perceived deficiencies of yum, from that link you posted, suggest:

Perceived deficiencies of yum (which DNF is intended to address) include poor performance, high memory usage, and the slowness of its iterative dependency resolution.

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chiefnoah profile image
Noah Pederson • Edited

dnf has more features than yum, it's literally a fork with fixes and updates (so technically, they are the same project, one is just maintained and the other is not). Even the yum source repository says the software is deprecated and you should not use it. There is no reason to still be using yum if you have the option not to.

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v6 profile image
πŸ¦„N BπŸ›‘ • Edited

DEPRECATED eh? I love when devs do this... "we are in charge of the product!"

Might work be constantly done by Google, but applying that product management approach to backend stuff? Yeah good luck with that. Lucky for the rest of us yum is not a SaaS I guess.

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chiefnoah profile image
Noah Pederson

Devs are who write and maintain your software, so yeah, they do get to decide if they're going to continue patching and fixing security issues. This has nothing to do with a "product management approach", it's how software has always worked. Some software can, and does, continue to function fine without getting changes or updates for decades, but most things nowadays are touching public networks (ie. the Internet) and failing to update increases potential risk of vulnerabilities.