I have to say, as an employer, you don't even get an interview unless you disclose how much you want to be paid. Doesn't matter if that's inside, under or over my budget.
During interview, I'll judge if you're worth it, and place you into "zones" within my budget scale for the role. HR then get to do the negotiation within the boundaries I've set.
I couldn't give a damn how much you're currently getting from someone else, even if it's an internal hire from another team.
Before anyone asks, yes, I talk to candidates that say they want more than my budget allows. Either they'll demonstrate their wishful thinking & I'll determine they're not worth that amount, or I'll make the case with my boss that we should blow the budget on an excellent candidate.
One of the most salient features of our Tech Hiring culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted.
But why is the onus on the interviewee? You could easily turn this around and state the salary upfront, and negotiate on merit alone. Want better people? Advertise a higher salary. Easy.
To clarify: get the best person fitting the salary instead of the best/lowest salary fitting some person. Obviously you can't negotiate skills with a specific person (they either have a skill or don't). But you have to make sure the pool is big enough so don't be greedy if you want skillful people.
Our job advert, for each level (junior/mid/senior) specifies the salary banding we operate within - so if a candidate thinks we're underpaying, they can save time & not apply.
I expect each candidate to specify how much they want to be paid (ideally within the banding, but if they are happy under it, fine, and if they want more, they'll have to justify it).
From there, during interview, I see:
a) if I want to hire them (team fit, job ability etc)
b) how much I think they're worth paying.
Lets say hypothetically, a junior role is 20-30k, a mid is 30-40k and a senior is 40-50k. I set "zones" of low/mid/high within those bandings, so I would expect to pay a "low junior" 20-23k, and a "high mid" 37-40k.
I've had a candidate apply for a junior role, stated expected salary was within my junior range. I interviewed them and it was obvious to me that they were misjudging their own ability, and we offered a "mid mid" (basically more than 10k over what was asked). I also threw that candidate a relocation package and a few extra perks. A few months after they accepted, I've also put them on a career/training plan to bump them through the senior payscale (potentially giving them another 15k rise over the next year/18months).
There's no reason I couldn't do that for an exceptional senior candidate either.
I'm not a fan of "race to the bottom" in salary/skills or anything else. But I also have to be realistic and work within financial projections up to 18months in the future, and when I want an exceptional candidate, blowing the budget comes at the cost of something else. Sadly, I haven't found the elusive money tree yet.
That sounds fair. That's a pretty good middle ground.
One last thing I want to add is that when the money question comes up I either go blank or panic. You probably have a lot of experience with that subject but for me it's terrifying.
One of the most salient features of our Tech Hiring culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted.
It's funny, I've always hated negotiating my own salary and defaulted to a "make sure my bills are paid & keep me happy/interested."
Never be afraid of negotiating though - the worst that can happen is that they say "no."
Lets say you're negotiating salary with our HR - they offer, you ask for more, they say no. At that point, the offer is still on the table (and you choose if you want to accept it or not). HR will always make the offer first, which puts you in the position of power.
Conversely, I always hated going to my current boss and saying I should get a raise. One time I did that, and was told "the only way I can give you anything from the budget is if you threaten to leave." So I interviewed elsewhere, put it to my current employer, and they couldn't compete - so I left.
Know what you're worth, understand Imposter Syndrome (and if you can, beat it) and stick to your guns.
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I have to say, as an employer, you don't even get an interview unless you disclose how much you want to be paid. Doesn't matter if that's inside, under or over my budget.
During interview, I'll judge if you're worth it, and place you into "zones" within my budget scale for the role. HR then get to do the negotiation within the boundaries I've set.
I couldn't give a damn how much you're currently getting from someone else, even if it's an internal hire from another team.
Before anyone asks, yes, I talk to candidates that say they want more than my budget allows. Either they'll demonstrate their wishful thinking & I'll determine they're not worth that amount, or I'll make the case with my boss that we should blow the budget on an excellent candidate.
We don't disagree so far then :)
But why is the onus on the interviewee? You could easily turn this around and state the salary upfront, and negotiate on merit alone. Want better people? Advertise a higher salary. Easy.
To clarify: get the best person fitting the salary instead of the best/lowest salary fitting some person. Obviously you can't negotiate skills with a specific person (they either have a skill or don't). But you have to make sure the pool is big enough so don't be greedy if you want skillful people.
I think you miss the point.
Our job advert, for each level (junior/mid/senior) specifies the salary banding we operate within - so if a candidate thinks we're underpaying, they can save time & not apply.
I expect each candidate to specify how much they want to be paid (ideally within the banding, but if they are happy under it, fine, and if they want more, they'll have to justify it).
From there, during interview, I see:
a) if I want to hire them (team fit, job ability etc)
b) how much I think they're worth paying.
Lets say hypothetically, a junior role is 20-30k, a mid is 30-40k and a senior is 40-50k. I set "zones" of low/mid/high within those bandings, so I would expect to pay a "low junior" 20-23k, and a "high mid" 37-40k.
I've had a candidate apply for a junior role, stated expected salary was within my junior range. I interviewed them and it was obvious to me that they were misjudging their own ability, and we offered a "mid mid" (basically more than 10k over what was asked). I also threw that candidate a relocation package and a few extra perks. A few months after they accepted, I've also put them on a career/training plan to bump them through the senior payscale (potentially giving them another 15k rise over the next year/18months).
There's no reason I couldn't do that for an exceptional senior candidate either.
I'm not a fan of "race to the bottom" in salary/skills or anything else. But I also have to be realistic and work within financial projections up to 18months in the future, and when I want an exceptional candidate, blowing the budget comes at the cost of something else. Sadly, I haven't found the elusive money tree yet.
That sounds fair. That's a pretty good middle ground.
One last thing I want to add is that when the money question comes up I either go blank or panic. You probably have a lot of experience with that subject but for me it's terrifying.
Oh, I don't think you are alone!
It's funny, I've always hated negotiating my own salary and defaulted to a "make sure my bills are paid & keep me happy/interested."
Never be afraid of negotiating though - the worst that can happen is that they say "no."
Lets say you're negotiating salary with our HR - they offer, you ask for more, they say no. At that point, the offer is still on the table (and you choose if you want to accept it or not). HR will always make the offer first, which puts you in the position of power.
Conversely, I always hated going to my current boss and saying I should get a raise. One time I did that, and was told "the only way I can give you anything from the budget is if you threaten to leave." So I interviewed elsewhere, put it to my current employer, and they couldn't compete - so I left.
Know what you're worth, understand Imposter Syndrome (and if you can, beat it) and stick to your guns.