We’re getting nitpicky with the namings 😄 I’d argue that even before AI, the code wasn’t necessarily great.
So my unpopular opinion is that this doesn't matter. Most of us got some kind of computer science degree, some of us continued to a Master degree in computer engineering, and we still don't know what this engineering is. In today's market the "Software engineering" term is kinda skewed, because we don't understand and we don't build computing systems from the hardware to software but operating in way higher levels.
I think what really matters here are two things: how much you care about the outcome, and how curious you are about what you’re doing.
You don’t care + you’re not curious: this is where the real offloading to AI happens. You’re happy with 'good enough', you don’t really want to understand the result, and when a bug appears, you go with the vibes. This is where mediocre apps with inexplicable bugs are born and also the worst part of this rectangular to be.
You don’t care + you’re curious: you’re still perfectly happy with a good-enough result, but you want to understand why it works. You can at least explain or justify the decisions you or your AI tools made.
You care + you’re not curious: you want a good result, but you don’t necessarily want to understand how everything works. You’re more likely rely on someone else expertise when you get stuck.
You care + you’re curious: probably the most frustrating combination when using AI 😅 You want the result to be good and you want to understand it, so you end up questioning the generated code, fixing things, and cleaning up every PR AI produces.
In my experience so far, vibe coders either lie on the "care but not curious" or "not care and not curious". They either are very excited to bring their idea in life and at the end if prompting doesn't work they will try to find someone to help them. OR they vibed code an app that they think they will make them millionaires in a day.
So I don't think AI fundamentally changed the behaviour by "enabling" vibe coders. I have seen in my jobs over the year countless people that they simple didn't care. They don't want to learn and they don't care about producing good results, they are fine with the "okay". I guess more and more people go to the "don't care category" due to burnout, or this insane pace, or their responsibilities become x10 or the lack of trust in companies or the impeding layoffs everywhere or...
Gosh, that was a long answer with many thoughts, so sorry 😅
Wow, that's such insightful and detailed feedback. Love to see it.
You're spot on about the different combinations of curiosity and care. I'd just add that without care, curiosity doesn't go very far. You might poke at something once, but the kind of curiosity that makes you dig deeper and actually learn comes from caring about the outcome.
As for the engineering part, I'd disagree that the term "engineer" is skewed.
The title isn't reserved for people who build everything from bare metal. A transmission engineer at Ford doesn't design the whole car, yet nobody questions the title. (Fun fact: in North America, even train drivers are officially called locomotive engineers.)
What makes something engineering is the nature of the work: knowing which components go into the build, understanding how they fit together, and balancing countless variables and trade-offs along the way. Performance, cost, reliability, maintainability, all while the system keeps changing under your feet.
Software creation demands exactly that. If this isn't engineering, I don't know what is.
I agree, curiosity is induced with care, but sometimes a person might not have time or the possibility to learn everything. I think if you care enough you probably at some point will try to understand though!
Fun fact, in my language engineering means: the one who builds machinery. Very few universities have the word engineer in their title of their programs, Its either computer science or Informatics. But this is beside the point. I get your point, but I still find things like 'AI engineers' silly. I think all those thing you mentioned comes (or came) with time and effort.
I guess we are going to very philosophical territories when we are wondering if we are engineers, or scientists. To be honest, I don't feel I am either of these, I just like to make useful things, so I guess am a maker!
200% agree that this behaviour didn’t magically appear with ai, it just made the consequences and the scale way more visible.
and, care about the outcome & stay curious about the process is such a solid combo. Tools will keep changing, but that mindset is gonna keep you growing as a dev !!
Loved this perspective thoughhh, these are exactly the kind of conversations I come to dev communities for🌸
We’re getting nitpicky with the namings 😄 I’d argue that even before AI, the code wasn’t necessarily great.
So my unpopular opinion is that this doesn't matter. Most of us got some kind of computer science degree, some of us continued to a Master degree in computer engineering, and we still don't know what this engineering is. In today's market the "Software engineering" term is kinda skewed, because we don't understand and we don't build computing systems from the hardware to software but operating in way higher levels.
I think what really matters here are two things: how much you care about the outcome, and how curious you are about what you’re doing.
In my experience so far, vibe coders either lie on the "care but not curious" or "not care and not curious". They either are very excited to bring their idea in life and at the end if prompting doesn't work they will try to find someone to help them. OR they vibed code an app that they think they will make them millionaires in a day.
So I don't think AI fundamentally changed the behaviour by "enabling" vibe coders. I have seen in my jobs over the year countless people that they simple didn't care. They don't want to learn and they don't care about producing good results, they are fine with the "okay". I guess more and more people go to the "don't care category" due to burnout, or this insane pace, or their responsibilities become x10 or the lack of trust in companies or the impeding layoffs everywhere or...
Gosh, that was a long answer with many thoughts, so sorry 😅
Wow, that's such insightful and detailed feedback. Love to see it.
You're spot on about the different combinations of curiosity and care. I'd just add that without care, curiosity doesn't go very far. You might poke at something once, but the kind of curiosity that makes you dig deeper and actually learn comes from caring about the outcome.
As for the engineering part, I'd disagree that the term "engineer" is skewed.
The title isn't reserved for people who build everything from bare metal. A transmission engineer at Ford doesn't design the whole car, yet nobody questions the title. (Fun fact: in North America, even train drivers are officially called locomotive engineers.)
What makes something engineering is the nature of the work: knowing which components go into the build, understanding how they fit together, and balancing countless variables and trade-offs along the way. Performance, cost, reliability, maintainability, all while the system keeps changing under your feet.
Software creation demands exactly that. If this isn't engineering, I don't know what is.
Thanks for the amazing comment!⭐️
I agree, curiosity is induced with care, but sometimes a person might not have time or the possibility to learn everything. I think if you care enough you probably at some point will try to understand though!
Fun fact, in my language engineering means: the one who builds machinery. Very few universities have the word engineer in their title of their programs, Its either computer science or Informatics. But this is beside the point. I get your point, but I still find things like 'AI engineers' silly. I think all those thing you mentioned comes (or came) with time and effort.
I guess we are going to very philosophical territories when we are wondering if we are engineers, or scientists. To be honest, I don't feel I am either of these, I just like to make useful things, so I guess am a maker!
200% agree that this behaviour didn’t magically appear with ai, it just made the consequences and the scale way more visible.
and, care about the outcome & stay curious about the process is such a solid combo. Tools will keep changing, but that mindset is gonna keep you growing as a dev !!
Loved this perspective thoughhh, these are exactly the kind of conversations I come to dev communities for🌸
100%
this should have been the post