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re: The Right Idea Becomes the Wrong Idea Over Time VIEW POST

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re: 2018 JavaScript is practically an entirely different language. Still no actual typing, but now with 200% more hipsters who download their boilerp...
 

200% more hipsters new programmers who download their boilerplate want an easier way to get started which is super reasonable given the crazypants environs of the current state of webdev.

FTFY

 

I think one can easily argue that it is actually harder to get into pure front end development now though. Forcing new programmers to learn and pick up build tools and transpiling? No thank you.

You'll find me as someone who suggests people to not learn JavaScript as their first language right now.

I still ❤️ Ruby as a teaching language.

But you can make a lot of arguments for different choices. A good teacher is the most important thing. I’ve heard folks who started with Haskell and everything was great because they had the right people.

I can definitely agree with that. With the right teacher any language can be just fine as your first language. In the end pretty much any programming language is teaching you core basics of programming in general.

Then again I am also the crazy one who learned C++ has their first language. haha.

I think Javascript is still amazing for beginners because you don't have to set up a local development environment to try it out. You can just use the browser DevTools console. Also you can get immediate visual feedback interacting with web pages and building elements.

You can also still just write little scripts and include them in HTML pages, then just open them in the browser and debug them from the console. A visual programming IDE that you already have on your computer. There's really nothing else like it for beginners. No command line necessary, which deters more beginners than we'd like to think.

I think Javascript is still amazing for beginners because you don't have to set up a local development environment to try it out. You can just use the browser DevTools console.

... which is a local development environment - and not even a good one because it also works with web-based JavaScript. Good luck debugging server-side code with it.

There's really nothing else like it for beginners.

There is: Install a better local development environment ... :-)

Lots of students only have access to chromebooks and can't install anything. It's a great option for them. And it's still a "real development environment" that professionals use, which makes it feel more real and exciting than an environment like CodeAcademy. Not sure what you mean by "not a good one," since it does its job of debugging code in the browser super well. Lots of beginners don't even know what "backend" and "frontend" mean, they just "want to code." We're trying to get them excited and see results, not intimidate them right? :)

And I think it's fine to get started learning about what variables are and basic statements.

Though they go any further chances are they are being told about WebPack, Babel, and more. Heck most instructions for using anything on the web nowadays talks about just using it with NPM. Well time to learn NPM also.

If you teach them without introducing ES6 features, then I agree, but most people are trying to introduce them to ES6.

Lots of students only have access to chromebooks and can't install anything.

Who forces them to not get a better notebook? Those are not too expensive.

Oh I don't know, forces of systemic economic oppression? ;) Many people need to choose between a phone and a computer for financial reasons, and they will almost always choose a phone because it's more functional. Schools (in the U.S. at least) often provide chromebooks in the classroom because they are cost effective and easy to administer.

If you think everybody should have better resources for learning to code, there are many great organizations you can donate to that are doing that difficult and expensive work. Here are a few:

These are phenomenal!

(The way the replies thread in the notifications thing, I saw this first before the others and though you were replying to me directly, and I was SO confused.)

Yup, the REPLY link here can be confusing...

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