Is This What Growing Up Feels Like?
I have been an avid, dedicated Gentoo user for about seven years (gulp). I love the flexibility of the package manager, and the extremely granular level of control over my system it gives me. Installing and administrating a Gentoo system for this long is the reason I know as much about Linux as I do, and I don't regret a minute of it.
However, all that configuration comes at a cost - my time. When the system works, it requires little to no maintenance, and should generally continue to work. If it breaks, it's because I changed something. However, it does require frequent updates to ensure smooth roll-forwards, and that means rebuilding components from source, a lot. If nothing else, it's ecologically irresponsible to repeatedly rebuild a whole Linux distribution for negligible gain.
At the end of the day, my needs are pretty run-of-the-mill, which is kind of a misuse of Gentoo's flexibility. It's finally time to part ways.
This is the list of alternatives I'm considering. I've actually installed and used each of these before as a secondary exploratory distro, but never used any as a daily driver.
This is currently my top choice, but this may just be a reaction to where I'm coming from. Debian's "elevator pitch" is stability. A Debian system should be expected to be rock-solid once installed. I don't want to futz with my operating system, I want to turn on my workstation and do work. Debian enjoys a massive package set and widespread compatibility, but I am concerned that the stable branch lags in terms of updates. I could use Debian Testing, but am I then forfeiting the whole purpose of using Debian in the first place? How easy is it to selectively use updated (or upstream) package repositories for software I actively use a lot on a largely Debian Stable system?
Manjaro is my second choice. I came to Gentoo from Arch Linux, and clearly connect with the "lego set" style of DIY linux distros. Arch was also a highly pleasant, highly stable experience, but this time around I no longer feel the need to build up completely from scratch. I had a positive experience installing Manjaro back in 2016, and can only assume it's further improved since then. Arch-diehards - why shouldn't I just use Manjaro and instead keep it strictly Arch?
I have much less familiarity with RPM, so it would be nice to learn, and hear this is a solid choice for developers who need their system components to remain relatively tight with upstream but still need a stable, cohesive system that all works together. This is the furthest from what I know, so it's tempting, but the whole point here is to think less about my OS and just get stuff done.
OpenSuSE has the somewhat dubious distinction of being my very first Linux distro, about six months before I discovered Ubuntu Breezy Badger back in 2005. I also tried and liked using Tumbleweed in 2018 for a bit as a daily driver, but still ended up running back to Gentoo. This distro has some serious brand loyalty, though. Why should I give it another look?
Most of these distributions actually differ somewhat minimally. It's a choice of a package manager and a default set of applications. I have already settled on KDE Plasma as my desktop environment of choice, so if I don't much care about the base, why not just use their distro and get the most polished KDE experience? Would this limit me in any significant way? The Ubuntu LTS base actually ticks all my boxes too.
Not likely, and not Linux, but Gentoo's portage is the whole reason I like Gentoo so much and is inspired by the BSD-style ports system. Is this actually a viable choice for a daily driver for development work?
I am also using and enjoying Void Linux on my rapidly aging laptop, but it's not quite as "just forget about it" as I want for my more modern desktop, and every so often I have trouble getting something installed (most recently, for example, dotnet).
Is there something awesome I've missed? Other reformed distro-hoppers, what's your Linux forever-home and why?
Photo by Mantas Hesthaven on Unsplash
Oldest comments (186)
Sounds like despite this Debian is still the safer choice, though?
The core of it to me is the package manager, not necessarily the set of stuff on the install disc. That said, is DEB vs RPM pretty much cosmetic?
Unfortunately at this point that's Gentoo, and not much else, which makes me think Manjaro might be the right call here. I don't care about nerd street cred, but I do care about using the "best" tool for the job. I guess the better question is whether not subscribing to one of the more mainstream package managers shooting myself in the foot in any significant way?
Depends also on what to dev and if you usually try a lot of new SW, with AUR Arch has an availability second to none. And if you have used Gentoo, admin Arch would be a breeze. Debian feels too outdated for a desktop.
Particularly with the background of wanting easier - and less time-consuming - configuration, I'm definitely going to recommend Debian. If the hardware doesn't give you hassle, that is. Debian is often somewhat picky about the systems it runs on smoothly, and you'll fall into the same configuration hell on those it doesn't like. In all honesty? Abandon ship if you run into larger blockades - at least if configuration hell is a crucial factor for you.
As for your question re: selective updates - it's reasonably easy. You can pin existing packages, request specific versions, limit your updates, and restrict (or widen) your upstream repositories more or less at will. A common factor with debian is doing major distribution upgrades purely by switching the upstreams, though this does reduce stability substantially.
Manjaro is often more like a "slightly less painful Arch", so I'd advise against it.
Fedora I have little experience with, but generally seems stable and easy-to-use.
OpenSuSE is okay. I worked at a place in public service that mandated it, and it was painless. But I never dug deep enough into it to give a solid recommendation.
FreeBSD I can't speak to, because I've been avoiding it like a plague - but from personal preference. Don't let that discourage you.
Awesome, this is helpful. Thanks for your perspective!
How about Ubuntu LTS ? For saving time I think it is a good choice. For installing packages, It has both apt install and snap install
What's the benefit over just using Debian?
Ubuntu has more apps since it contains both free and proprietary applications. Also since 18.04 LTS, it has snap pre-installed, for some software it is really easy to install, for example, to install a rocket.chat server, it is just one line
snap install rocketchat-server, although you can install snapd manually in debian too.I mean for advanced user like you, there may not be many differences, but on the "saving time" purpose, I think Ubuntu LTS is better since it targets Linux beginner users with a lots of apps pre-installed or pre-configured. I was using Debian and FreeBSD before, while customizing the system is fun, my current main focus is getting things quickly done without spending too much time on trouble shooting software installation problems
Awesome.
I don't believe I currently use anything non-free, but this is an important note, thanks. I've never really tried
snap, it does seem pretty painless.Good food for thought, I do feel I've kinda gotten my UNIX ricing days out of my system already, so this may actually be exactly what I need.
Another upside of the LTS-versions that alot of people, quite ironically, neglect is the extended support that you'll get. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, which was released almost two years ago, will receive security updates until 2023.
Obviously if you wait that long to upgrade you'll suffer from dated packages with a potential lack of features, but no matter what, you'll still receive security patches.
In my opinion, only the one thing matters in current days OS is the UI. Especially if you a frontend either backend developer. All those containers and virtualization give you the ability to run any type of software and tool that you need. Even VScode these days can run inside containers, that's crazy! So I think you can choose one that gives you the ability to concentrate on what you do, not on how you do. Time is a very precious thing to spend it to configure and update tools. ✌️
But they can all use the same UIs?
I vote for Manjaro.
Before Manjaro I used Ubuntu for years, the user experience has been almost the same, stable. Didn't have any problem with the hardware (but that just luck). I've been using Manjaro i3 edition for more than six months and everything has been great so far.
I installed all my development tools from the main repository without any problem. Didn't even bother to learn about the package manager the first month because the graphical frontend (pamac-gtk) was so convinient and easy to use.
If you do need to do some maintenance I believe they have some helpers scripts that automate some stuff for you. I came across one of those while browsing the options of
bmenu.Heck of a review. Thanks for sharing your experience!
So you're after something that's
Have you considered using a fork of BSD? It's supported by a multimillion dollar corporation, who've built a custom window manager on top of it. It's tailored to a very specific hardware setup, but under the hood its mostly vanilla BSD, with the same utilities and philosophy. It's a great development OS, and you'll never spend any time messing around with the OS.
One catch: you'll have to buy one of said corporation's computers to use this OS, or hack one together yourself.
Other than politics and price - why wouldn't you use an Apple Mac running OSX?
You're not wrong, of course.
Those are reasons enough for me, though. I'm good with the hardware I've got, have no plans to upgrade for several years, and got the specs I needed by watching prices of components individually, ending up spending a fraction of what Apple hardware would have cost. The hackintosh route is also just that - a whole project in and of itself. I want something I can install today on my hardware as-is. Also, you still need to buy a license, right? If I can get most of the way there without spending money, that's worth it to me.
Because of its terrible UX, bug-ridden UI and lack of customisability or compatibility.
and to go from the most flexible and configurable distro to Apple tiny box? go from, compile this package but only with this features I'm giving to you; to "feedme Apple gods", and please be nice to me... I'll pay you more if you love me back! and don't take more ports away from me plz! or do, if you think I don't deserve or need them...
... seems a big jump to me.
It is, but it's partially precipitated by the fact that I no longer care much about that as long as I can use the tools I want to use. There are other reasons why this is not on my radar, though.
Manjaro includes a lot of junk apps you won't use out the box, including things like menu items for Microsoft products and associations with
.docfiles, etc.It doesn't offer anything I can think of over Arch except a GUI installer, and installing Arch takes ten minutes if you follow the steps on the website, which is possibly even faster than the GUI method.
It's more like, "why shouldn't you use Arch?"
Good points, all - true enough re: install time. Doesn't Manjaro keep its own package sets on top of the base Arch stuff?
something you have to consider is that if you come from a GEntoo install, Arch would be even easier given that most of your config would be just copy files from your existing Gentoo /etc; when I moved from Void - Arch - Gentoo, the whole install where mostly just copy/paste. So maybe in your case Arch maybe is actually faster to install than Manjaro.
It has a few packages written by someone who clearly has no clue what he's doing, but no, all it does is hold packages back a week, and occasionally backports security patches and doesn't publish the PKGBUILDs for them.
I think the most "forget about it" you're going to get is probably Debian or Ubuntu.
Personally, ideally I must admit I use OS X but only when work pay for one, I refuse to part with my own cash for it. Failing that I tend to just fall back on Ubuntu and I always find it's pretty good these days. I've used 18.04 since it came out on my personal laptop and always been pretty happy with it. Reason is mostly because I know whatever hardware I have Ubuntu will almost certainly support it. I've had problems with Ubuntu in the past but ultimately always gone back to it and these days it seems better (could just be me hacking about less with it though to be fair).
I kind feel the same way these days, that I've done the Gentoo/Debian/OpenSUSE/Fedora/all sorts and I just can't be bothered to deal with problems any more. If it starts sinking my time into administering it when I just want something that works I start getting annoyed. When I set one up I do tend to try and use Ansible to set the whole thing up from scratch. Probably a bit sledgehammer for a walnut admittedly but it does have the advantage that if it goes really haywire I just trash and restart again, though still annoying when I need to do that for obvious reasons.
Would be very interested to hear what you end up going for in the end and what your experiences are.
I haven't tried the Ansible thing yet, probably should this time around...
Have you considered Solus? It will definitely be my next Linux distro.
Solus is a rolling release, that is not based on any other distro. But it is still considered to be quite stable and easy to install.
It also looks pretty nice although it is supposed to be quite lightweight. I can't wait to give it a try.
I've heard of it but don't know much about it. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts once you do!
Solus is very nice distro. Very fast to boot with neat ecosystem and I seriosuly considered swithing to it from Manjaro if not for the lack of CUDA support (resolved now) and some missing hardware drivers.
I did the same, years of Gentoo and then left it, but not long after I felt the call back, everything felt so "not Gentoo" I used Arch, Void, Debian, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Fedora, even Slackware for a while; but that feeling that something was missing, even the little things like the lovely colors of the emerge output, how OpenRC looked at boot, to manually install the kernel with every new version and browse the menuconfig, I know you can do that with any distro but why bother if is not Gentoo; just like the call of the sea finally came back, like the prodigal son.
I think Gentoo did something to me and now I can't run of it. I use other distros for other machines, but my home is Gentoo. So run if you can, be free!
PS: I really like Void, it's 2min install is awesome, the first time I thought that something went wrong with it and everything was fine. Did it put a lot of trouble? or just a bit? I used it about 2yrs ago and it had some administrative troubles after that.
Hah, I'm worried I'm a lifer too but I don't want to have to be.
To answer your void question, I never got it working. .NET not an essential tool for me so I didn't try very hard, but it's a no-go as a total replacement for now. The administrative troubles are also...troubling. I do really like the experience in general though,
xbpsis good stuff.I tried FreeBSD years ago, it had a lot of draw backs, OpenBSD worked better for me but in both cases the lack of Docker (unless there is something to emulate it), and small inconveniences like some video/chat client not working, etc. Sometimes you hit some HW not supported. And that was before systemd took over, so I would expect even more incompatibilities issues nowdays.
I think you should add PopOS! to the alternatives list, I recently installed it to my sis and it felt really well polished and she haven't reported any inconvenience yet.
I'm on Manjaro since one month or a bit more. It's really cool ✌
I like fedora. I've used it both for personal and work (not at current job, unfortunately I'm stuck with osx here). It just works by default -- I haven't had an issue with out-of-date packages or mismatched dependencies or anything.
I'm also weird and actually enjoy GNOME3, so take what I've just said with a grain of salt.
Some comments may only be visible to logged-in visitors. Sign in to view all comments.