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Discussion on: How has the software dev job gotten worse in the last few years?

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tandrieu profile image
Thibaut Andrieu

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, I found developer, especially young ones, don't know what is developing anymore.
I mean, they don't know what is a data structure, what is an algorithm and generally just pile up technologies on top of others.

Ok, you can stack up ElasticSearch with KeyCloak microservice running on k8s, with Angular front end, kafka messaging queue, swagger API and so one. But when I ask you to design a Tree structure, you answer that's too complicated, that's a C++ concept and you don't need that anymore for web development... True story...

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drewknab profile image
Drew Knab • Edited

In 10 years of web dev I’ve never had to design or traverse a tree from first principles. There’s no reason for me to keep that in working memory other than as the world’s most boring parlor trick.

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tandrieu profile image
Thibaut Andrieu

Any frontend framework is tree base. DOM is a tree. File system is a tree. GoogleMap is a Tree. You are working with trees for 10 years. I find very sad that you consider this concept as useless.

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drewknab profile image
Drew Knab • Edited

How often are you actively writing novel algorithms to traverse any of these that this is important to you and needs to remain in working memory?

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tandrieu profile image
Thibaut Andrieu

A few examples of when I had to implement tree or graph structure in 10 years:

  • I wrote an octree based structure to accelerate ray casting for radar simulation in C/Mathlab for nuclear industry.
  • I wrote a mission planning software, where items (area, boundary, POI, etc...) were stored as a tree hierarchy in C# for defense industry.
  • I wrote multi-resolution engine for OpenInventor in C++ based on octree for oil and gaz industry.
  • I worked a lot on OpenInventor Scene graph engine, which is basically a tree. Optimize its structure, its traversal, etc... in C++ for CAD industry.
  • I developed a "google drive" like client in python to display file system and some associated meta-data (which is no more than a tree) for medical research.
  • I developed a chart engine in Qt/C++, which is based on Scene Graph pattern, so again a tree structure, for oil and gaz industry.

Different projects, different domains, but the same way to address them. So I had to manipulate graph and tree structure at least once a year.

The point is not to know by heart how to implement a traversal, a deep search or whatever. I've implemented maybe a dozen of deep search in my career, but I'm still unable to do it properly at first try.

The point is to recognize that the problem you have to address can be modeled with a tree, a graph, or any other classical structure or design pattern.

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drewknab profile image
Drew Knab

We are working on very different projects my friend. I've primarily worked on forms-over-data business software, content management, and a little bit of streaming audio/video.

The point is not to know by heart how to implement a traversal, a deep search or whatever. I've implemented maybe a dozen of deep search in my career, but I'm still unable to do it properly at first try.

The point is to recognize that the problem you have to address can be modeled with a tree, a graph, or any other classical structure or design pattern.

I agree with you here 100%.

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robins profile image
Robin 2077

I'm a new developer just recently written a DFS for file system tree to delete some files with specific extensions and exclude some folders which are need to be protected.

But yeah I work in these stacks too ES, KeyCloak, K8s etc.

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tandrieu profile image
Thibaut Andrieu

Glad to hear this 😊