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Andrew (he/him)
Andrew (he/him)

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Can we separate the artist from their art? Should we?

(In)famous author and programmer John Sonmez (author of Soft Skills and The Complete Software Developer's Career Guide) has said some patently despicable things on Twitter lately, and faced a rightly-deserved backlash:

When events like this happen, whether it's an author, or a musician, or an actor, the conversation often ends up at the idea of separating the artist from their art. Can we enjoy John Sonmez's books while still thinking he's an awful person who has said some disgusting things? Is this cognitive dissonance? If someone else had written the same books, would they be any more useful?

Sonmez's publisher has dropped Soft Skills and his courses have been dropped from Pluralsight. I'm completely uncomfortable with financially supporting someone who's hurt people so flippantly, but should we avoid even secondhand (or library copies) of his books?

What do you think?


Photo by Viktoria Goda from Pexels

Latest comments (41)

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hablutzel1 profile image
Jaime Hablutzel

Woah I can't believe all the comments from MEN in this thread! Can you share here just one specific racist/misogynist phrase in John's tweets? If someone calls me "pussy" I should tell him thanks as it will give more strength to come back stronger, no?. Really having read this history and John's statements just made me worry and feel like I'm in a parallel world… woahh!

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theooliveira profile image
Theo Oliveira

Well I could be more contextualized over why He said that or just get a slice of the whole tweets is just enough to have this discussion?

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codemouse92 profile image
Jason C. McDonald

By the way, someone did the service of documenting the entire disaster: medium.com/@cherp/propaganda-other... I'm putting this here because I've been asked for more info twice, and this author has the best summary.

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andreirusu_ profile image
Andrei Rusu

That's an eternal question debated at length in all kinds of circles. The best answer I found so far is that there is no separation: "Art is not a moral force, is not something that exists separate of us. It's life itself." - Richard Flanagan.

I'm not familiar with Sonmez's books so I'm not sure if they're worth reading, but I guess if they are then you should read them, although I very much doubt that they are worth of anything. I watched one of his videos and he didn't strike me like the sharpest tool in the shed.

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niravcodes profile image
Nirav Nikhil

The ability to separate the art from the artist, IMHO, is an extremely important skill to have. To me, it is important that I approach a piece without biases, either positive or negative, stemming from anything external to the piece itself. This includes the marketing hype, recommendations from friends, and the author and his popularity, charm, history or familiarity, etc.

This mindset helps me, I think, give better and more constructive criticism to friends, and learn more from the piece that I'm studying. It also helps me avoid becoming a "die-hard fan", which more often than not is just a better term for sheep. After all, if you reject art because of the artist, then you also accept art because of the artist, which is necessarily a bad idea.

There are many things around us: inventions, ideas, books, paintings, which were created by people who have done "bad" things. Einstein wrote a letter to the president which (supposedly) caused the Manhattan project to be started. Richard Feynman's first instinct after the bomb dropped in Japan was to party. Edison electrocuted live animals to public to demonstrate why AC is bad. Should we reject everything they've given us? I say no. The light bulb is not Edison.

People are complex and multifaceted. Their creative output does not represent their entire worldview. Whether they are morally flawed or even criminal IRL shouldn't stop me from learning whatever I can from their best work. I'll continue to study, learn from, and criticise, Neruda's poems

This particular case is no exception. I didn't know about John Sonmez and I didn't follow the Twitter drama, but I don't see why I wouldn't read his book if it's any good. Also, this revenge driven mindset (he did so and so on Twitter so I'll avoid his books, even if secondhand) is really petty and not practical at all.

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desolosubhumus profile image
Desolo Sub Humus 🌎🌍 • Edited

I'd say it's all situational.

Personally, I like reading H. P. Lovecraft's stories, but his racist leanings were horrible, to say the least. There is a bit of wiggle room, though, considering - his racism was comical viewed through the lens of the mythos he created, he lived his whole life fearing that he was truly his father's son (in other words, clinically insane), and he frequently remarked that anyone who believed the horrors he wrote about (metaphorically, hatred of others based on cultural differences) were real were clearly lunatics.

But Sonmez is a whole different case. Instead of questioning his own hate and vitriol, he doubled down on it. This seems like the absolute wrong way to go when you write books about soft skills. Surely, if you write about soft skills, you should demonstrate that you have soft skills yourself, right? It'd be like me writing a book about the greatest football strategies ever, even though I can't stand football.

Granted, I don't like SJWs any more than he does (SJAs are more my style), but his full support of the ideology of alpha male identitarians is inexcusable. Personally, I'd rather learn about soft skills from someone who actually has soft skills.


To clarify for those who don't know what I mean by SJAs being more my style, the general definitions I go by are:

  • SJW/Social Justice Warrior - hates all things white, male, able, cis, straight, 'normie', and who are not sufficiently poverty-stricken. They have often taken less than one year of gender studies or racial studies, have not yet lived without their parents' support, are wealthy, and wish for someone who can check all the minority blocks to take all power and crush all 'normies' under their iron fist. -Purity culture for the left
  • SQW/Status Quo Warrior - hates all non-whites, women, 'the gays', 'lady boys', drag queens, 'dirty poors', no matter how poor they are themselves, non-Christians, and anyone who generally isn't them. They often pine for 'the good ol' days' when blacks were slaves, women were to be given to men by their fathers for political and financial gain, and wealthy, god-fearing men were in charge. -Purity culture for the right
  • SJA/Social Justice Activist - Someone who works to make the world a better place for everyone, regardless of skin color, sex, sexual persuasion, gender, disability, financial ability, or any other issue that divides us socially and politically. -Equality and opportunity for all, aspirations of 'purity' for none.

I understand my definitions for these terms may differ from yours (and likely Sonmez, at least on the SJA bit), but it's less about the term and more about the attitude in my book. No offense to those who still call themselves SJWs when SJA might be a better fit - again, it's about what you do and not which 3 letters you go by.

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azzenabidi profile image
Azzen Abidi

I am utterly shocked!!

And although I agree that what he did is bad and harmful, not to mention his misogynistic attitude, I don't believe calling him out will come up with a desired output.

I am sure we have many Johns in the industry sadly and unless we have a healthy conversation and come up with practical solutions, we won't go anywhere.

We should deploy more empathy. For Instance, I am a man with a physical disability that doesn't necessarily match the classical "being a man" checklist.

Despite being discriminated and bullied in what's supposed to be a male dominated industry, I never called out any because I knew it's about the behaviour not the person.

Most People back their answers with numbers when they talk about inclusion. Numbers are meaningless if you have a toxic work environment or misogynistic coworkers.

We almost never question the defaults. But it's about time we do!

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gypsydave5 profile image
David Wickes

I saw this and immediately thought it would be a great place to talk about Wagner.

But this asshat Sonmez is neither artist nor art. He's an asshat.

A bigger problem is rms. I find it hard to disagree with him on many things, and he's been historically a great contributor the things I lpve and use. But he also turns out to be horrible and misogynistic.

But I don't think that means I stop using Emacs.

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awwsmm profile image
Andrew (he/him)
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bugmagnet profile image
Bruce Axtens • Edited

When you look at the Mona Lisa do you spend much time thinking about the painter? When you use LibreOffice do you think much about the lives, times and ugly personal secrets of the army of developers who coded it? How about the people who designed and built your car? Or the staff of the company that sold you the car?

As Ruby Hamad of the Sydney Morning Herald newspaper in Australia aptly points out, "All heroes have a dark side, no matter what side they're on". Both Martin Luther King, Jr. and his namesake Martin Luther had a dark side. Hey, even Charles Darwin!

Are we going to trash everything these people did because they weren't perfect? Is absolute perfection the standard? If so, then the only person worth listening to is Jesus Christ who not only claimed to teach truth, but also claimed to embody it.

I often pray to God asking for help and inspiration in my work. However, I don't look in the Bible for information on C#, JavaScript and the history of programming languages. For that I'm going to have to rely on human beings, flaws and all.

P.S. In my little backwater, the name John Sonmez was unknown until I read the article leading to this comment.

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sebbdk profile image
Sebastian Vargr • Edited

Not separating ideas, art etc. from who made it is a mistake.
It only leaves us more depraved and ignorant.

Even if it is a bad idea, art etc. then there is probably something to learn from it.


On a side note.

Is this guy not obviously frustrated?

Does he really deserve humiliation, or "being called out" and how will that help anyone?

Wont that just alienate him even more?

IMHO what he deserves is patience and help on how to deal with his frustration in an evolving world.

You would not call out a junior dev' for bad code, you would help them learn.
So why would you call out, or attack, an opinion on any other matter?

It's fruitless, and just comes of as self-serving to me when people "call others out".