I spend a lot of time talking about the challenges junior developers face when they are trying to break into tech. And honestly, there’s probably a...
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You make very good points.
Having devs work on real projects for a company without pay shouldn't be allowed. A while back, the place I worked at talked to a few consultants about improving the interview process. One was supposed to be a 'industry leader' on being a advocate for developer interview and improving the process, but they suggested something that really irritated me...
The "try before you buy". In other words, make candidates work on real world projects instead of a interview...without pay. I can go on for an entire blog post on why this is actually a terrible way to find candidates.
I interview a fair amount of candidates and I see some major issues in the industry (this is my 2 cents here)
Twitter and other social media preach "online brand, side-projects, portfolio, get a high follower count, keep blogging" so much that many beginners just get burnt out even before they get their first job!
Interviewing candidates is a skill that needs to be developed. Many developers spend time on developing their personal skills, but interviewing candidates is usually not one of them. It's often easier for senior developers to run pop-quiz style interviews or rely on take home tests then to evaluate a developer.
Different companies/projects have their own required skillset so there always will be a 'interview process' of some sort. One of the frequent things my 'tech friends' and I always discuss with each other is the interview process and how to make it better.
I feel safe taking about it within a circle of friends because we talk about what processes works and those that do not...but still being respectful of what our employers require. It's really hard to have such a discussion on social media because it always turns into a yelling match since there will always be people who hate a particular style.
Right now, my personal preference is to have 'discussions' about the required skillset with the candidate. There are no right or wrong answers and focuses on communication and attitude (are they a jerk or condescending when they talk about things). But it's not just the candidate talking, it's both of us. In my experience, if you can have a good conversation about JavaScript to a developer, you don't need to test their knowledge on syntax (ie coding tests).
I'm not saying this method is perfect either. There are problems to this approach as well.
I "do" look at portfolio projects, but only at a high level but it's not a must have. Many solid developers don't have side projects. Even I don't have any.
Just a disclaimer, I don't think any method is perfect and I have changed my mind and methods over the years.
Thanks for this. This is a great response. I really want to organize a large group conversation in some form about this. I think the more perspectives, the better. But I’m so maxed out rn. Maybe sometime in 2021.
If you’re interested, I’d love to add you to the list for my tbd meeting 🤣
for sure, I'd love to help where I can.
Don't burn out tho!
Trying to figure out how to avoid that 😭
This is a great post Bekah! You have much more experience than I do with job searching in the tech industry but I've heard/read plenty of job search anecdotes that corroborate each point you listed under the "Clear Exploitation" section.
Personally, I think it's disgusting that companies use interviewees' code—unpaid work!—in production. I vowed to myself to not complete a take-home test unless it's designed solely for the purpose of the interview (i.e. something not specific to that company's codebase). If any company has a problem with that, I'm prepared to explain my reasoning behind my request for an alternate take-home test. Their response could be a huge indicator as to whether or not it's the right fit for me.
And your last bullet point, that definitely doesn't get talked about enough. I feel so sad when I catch up with my Flatiron codepanions who are struggling to find a job after graduation and in the meantime, they're receiving constant rejections. It's gotta be so rough! 😞
Meg, you are awesome and I am so glad to have you in my community. Thank you for your kind words.
Thank you for writing this! Even if there's no clear solution at the moment, reading this helps me feel less down on myself, knowing that it's not just me. Just gotta keep going on for now and prepare myself for my future developer job. ^_^
"Survival of the fittest" --- exactly how I felt. It felt even worse if you are not a CS grad.
So far I don't think any company I interviewed with used my code in their real code base but many of them do require lengthy time contribution in code or project challenge. If they offer enough time (1-2 hours) to review and give me feedback I don't feel too bad, after all their engineers need to get a feel for their future co-workers and perhaps they're not looking for juniors but wanted to give me a chance.
Some have employed automated tests which has nothing to do with the real work that simply rejected you if you don't pass, that is not fine with me.
Strangely, both my internship and first job didn't require take-home test, whiteboard, algorithm test etc. What we had is a conversation more about our mutual interests and whom I am as person. But... don't get me wrong that I just bump into luck. I do have a good portfolio to convince them to talk to me. And I also went through tons of frustrating job hunting and rounds and rounds of interviews and tests. Sometimes I learn something along the way, sometimes I don't.
I don't know what will be the best way either... I wish there is a round table talk for hiring manager and candidates to share some honest insights so it will benefit both in the future.
Bekah, once again a great article. You have tapped into the collective frustrations of a lot of job seeking junior developers.
My story is no different than most. After years of a love of web tech I decided 16 months ago to start this career change. In the beginning I was so excited. I finished bootcamp and after a frustrating 9 month job search, 3 months unemployed, I am no where closer to a dream becoming a reality. My story is no different than many others. Keep writing and inspiring others.
My heart continually goes out to you, Chuck. I am very much hoping that this wait will lead to an amazing offer.
This is a great article Bekah! I'm not near the point of job searching yet, but all the job search frustrations and stories I see scare and are discouraging :(.