The content of this article is excerpted from the "Things about Independent Development of Side Businesses" program of the "Fang Junyu" Chinese podcast. Everyone is welcome to search and listen to this podcast program on major podcast platforms.
[Opening Remarks]
Fang Junyu: Hello everyone, welcome to my personal podcast, where I record moments of my daily life through sound. I'm Fang Junyu. This episode is titled "Side Jobs with Independent Development." I've also invited an independent developer I know, Xiao He, to introduce him to you.
Xiao He: Hello everyone, I'm Xiao He. I'm currently developing independent apps, so I have a good understanding of the field.
Xiao He: Let me start by saying that my main job is a front-end web developer. Since independent Apple developers have been so popular in recent years, I've been able to capitalize on this buzz. You'll notice that there are very few independent Android developers; most of them are Apple developers or web developers going global.
Fang Junyu: I see a lot of independent Apple developers on Xiaohongshu, while Android apps might be restricted by licensing and other factors.
Xiao He: Yes, getting apps on Android is more complicated. Why do Apple apps have more independent developers than Android apps? It's not a big deal; it's almost one-sided. Most apps are developed independently by Apple. In China, Android apps need to be listed on different app stores, and each manufacturer (Xiaomi, Huawei, Oppo) has different requirements for listing apps, making adaptation more complex. Furthermore, Android apps also require software copyright and enterprise certification, making the Android listing process even more complex and less profitable.
Fang Junyu: I wonder if the current surge in independent Apple development is related to Swift, as Objective-C was previously more difficult to learn.
Xiao He: Swift has been around for a long time, but many people use UIKit to develop Apple interfaces. SwiftUI has been around for many years, so it's actually quite stable. It just happened to be at the critical juncture of AI, and everything just clicked.
Fang Junyu: I started doing independent development myself, too. I followed the 100 Days of SwiftUI tutorial and used ChatGPT, and then I got started.
[Discussion on the Direction of Independent App Development]
Fang Junyu: I recently saw someone post about the direction of independent developers, saying they should choose a specific niche market. We've also discussed this in our group chats. When large companies see your app is popular, they'll copy it. Although my apps are all open-source and free, it's not a big loss for me if they copy. As long as you have a niche, whether you're developing a travel app or any other app, including games, you'll find all sorts of copycats flooding the domestic market...
Xiao He: The trend of independent development on iOS is very clear and growing.
Fang Junyu: Especially with the use of AI, most people can try to create their own tools. Even if your app doesn't have a market, you can still use it yourself...
Xiao He: Currently, this trend is happening in China, but I think the trend of independent developers overseas will also gradually grow, especially in more niche countries. I'm not talking about countries like Europe and the US, where independent development has been popular for a long time. I'm talking about more niche countries, like those in Southeast Asia and South America.
[Discussion on the Three Stages of Independent App Development (Individual → Studio → Company)]
Fang Junyu: Xiao He, the studio you're running now with a few friends is actually the second stage of independent development. I've previously said that independent development is a one-person effort. Once the app has a good market and direction, you can start a studio with three or four people. Once the studio generates a certain amount of income, you can start a company. There's still a long way to go from independent development to a company, but in this direction, it seems you're already in the second stage.
Xiao He: Why go directly to the second stage? Because everyone doesn't have the time to stay in the first stage. They don't have the full time to build Banklet all on their own like you did. Everyone doesn't have that kind of time, but everyone works on a module, with someone contributing to the design and product development. This model is more suitable for those who are already employed.
[Discussion on the Long-Term Development of Independent Development]
Fang Junyu: From a long-term perspective, how do you view independent development? Can it replace your main business and have a longer-term development path?
Xiao He: I think there is hope. Independent development does have a future. However, I currently feel that the significance of whether independent development can succeed isn't inherently about the developers themselves, as the pressure on the operations side may be greater right now.
Fang Junyu: App promotion?
Xiao He: Yes, for app promotion, the operations side is responsible. I believe an app will be better than similar apps, but if there are problems with promotion, it won't actually take off.
Fang Junyu: Right, right, right. If early promotion isn't good, the app is easily copied and replaced.
Xiao He: Right. So, while I'm optimistic about independent developers, I'm more optimistic about those who build branded or independent IP, rather than those who focus solely on deep technical development. Even if they don't promote, if development efficiency improves and the scale of their business increases, then I'm optimistic. I once met a developer who created a mini-program. He didn't promote it, but he created a hundred of them. He built up a significant scale and was able to generate stable revenue from advertising...
Xiao He: It really depends on whether your app can become popular and whether it can meet public demand at the right time. I think that's crucial. After all, as long as you have one popular app, that's enough. So, I think you should focus on one direction.
[Discussion on Independent Development for Each Platform]
Fang Junyu: There are quite a few WeChat mini-programs in the widget category. WeChat is, after all, a massive traffic portal.
Xiao He: You're not just targeting China; WeChat only has the domestic market. Right? Then you go to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau, and Europe.
Fang Junyu: They don't use WeChat.
Xiao He: Right, so we still have to develop iOS apps.
Fang Junyu: Including later stages, if iOS does well, this independent development will also cover Android and HarmonyOS. HarmonyOS has many incompatibilities. Anyway, both Android and iOS can be updated simultaneously in the future.
[Discussion on Expected Income from Independent Development]
Fang Junyu: Since I'm going independent development, I imagined that after I finished, my app would be like a cash cow. You could rely on your app forever, no matter how many people buy it; after all, you only need to sell your product. It's not like other businesses (like selling fish or tea) where you have to pick up and sell goods every day. But once your app is created, you need to put it on app stores like the App Store, and people will buy and use it... You can generate a stable income of 30,000 to 40,000 yuan per year, allowing you to go out and have fun, travel, and your app will be like a cash cow on your computer, with people constantly buying and using it.
Fang Junyu: What kind of life do you imagine for independent development? Is it the same as mine? Or is there a difference between reality and idealism?
Xiao He: The idea that if an app has stable income, you can just ignore it is unrealistic. There's basically no such thing as an untapped niche; there will always be many similar apps. Constant iteration, operation, and maintenance are still necessary.
Fang Junyu: If your app generates a few thousand or even tens of thousands of yuan in revenue per month, independent development is a very good position compared to any other position. You have a product.
Xiao He: Because if you succeed, others will copy you. And they'll invest more in traffic, advertising, and promotion. Sooner or later, you'll be outperformed. So, independent development is difficult these days. Planting a cash cow and expecting it to just roll in the dough without watering is practically impossible.
Fang Junyu: Continuous optimization is still necessary to increase the usage of these apps and further compete. Staying ahead at the starting line is like sailing against the current; if you don't advance, you retreat. Even if your app is excellent, if you don't keep up, it will be slowly replaced by others.
[End]
Fang Junyu: Thank you very much, Xiao He, for joining us and sharing his experiences with independent development and my own experiences with app development. We also discussed the development of independent development, including future trends.
Xiao He: See you next time, if you have time, to continue our conversation.
Fang Junyu: Time may be limited today, so we won't expand on this topic any further. We may discuss independent development or other topics later, and we'll invite Xiao He back to be a guest on our podcast. Thank you very much for listening. Goodbye everyone.
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