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Stencil: I Think I Found My Frontend Home

Ben Lovy on January 08, 2020

Getting Real I've just started exploring stencil and am already nursing a crush. I will be the first to admit that I don't particularly...
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Ryan Smith

I also landed on Stencil after trying all of the other big frameworks and built my site with it. It just feels right. It seems like other front-end libraries are "hacking" the web to get it to do their bidding, while Stencil embraces it and provides the same convenience as those frameworks. It is hard to justify the investment of learning a front-end framework that is not compatible with anything else and may eventually be replaced by the next big thing in 3-5 years. My only complaint so far is using JSX with it, I think I would prefer a template approach instead, but everything else has worked well.

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David Dal Busco

My first impression was the same as yours, I would have rather like to use template, but now? I would like to use TSX everywhere 🤣

Cherry on top, I think, it could help developers with prior React experience to easily step in Stencil and likewise, for developers without React experience, it could help to step in React.

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Ben Lovy Author

template approach

How tricky would this be to make work work with the tools as-is? I know the stencil tool does operate on a set of assumptions but at a glance this seems like the sort of thing you could do.

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Ryan Smith

I think it can be done. I set up lit-html in Stencil and it seemed to work, but was kind of weird because I had to create a dummy element to attach lit-html to and call render() { render( document.querySelector("element") ) }. I'm sure that probably negated any compiler optimizations in Stencil. There might be a better way to do it, but I haven't explored it too much.

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Gabe Kangas

It's nice to hear of somebody else who doesn't particularly enjoy building frontends. It seems sometimes that everyone is so passionate about web frontend development. I think building web frontends is a mess and no fun, but because it's 2020 I can't get away from it. It makes me feel like I'm the only one that feels that way! Good to know I'm not alone!

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Ben Lovy Author

I think some of that might be perceived bias - DEV in particular is pretty frontend focused but it really is just a subset of all the engineering going on - thankfully so!

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David Dal Busco

Great article Ben, thx for the share 👍

If I understand correctly what the Stencil team is currently cooking and also understand correctly that you like Rust, I might not be wrong saying that you might even gonna love more Stencil soon 😉

Check out this recent tweet from @adamdbradley 👉 twitter.com/adamdbradley/status/12...

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Ben Lovy Author

You just made my month.

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Ghost

I've noticed that you have written some Rust articles, I know Rust/wasm is not production ready yet (that is of course always debatable), but did you take a look on that?, how far from ready is it?,

I'm working in a personal project with Actix-web and soon I'll start dealing with the client side, I haven't started a heavy research on the client side yet but from what I've heard I'm considering: Svelte, Stencil or something in Rust, maybe Seed or Percy, but there seems to be very uncertain yet.

Did you considered some wasp alternative?, any interesting discovery on that front? or is too new/experimental yet?

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Ben Lovy Author

Yep - My old site is in actix-web, and I plan to continue writing servers in hyper. Part of my goal here is to get more familiar with a more mainstream tech, so TypeScript was a primary driver.

As far as frontends go, I've tried both Yew and hand-rolling with web-sys - I wrote a quick write-up of the latter here:

I think "uncertain" is exactly the word. Not a lot of "1.0" level crates, so you have to expect breaking API changes. I think this should be revisited after everything has had more time to bake, but is an exciting tech to watch.

For simple frontend sites, though, Rust is overkill. JS/TS is the right tool for a lot of cases. If you're doing all your work server-side, then it's a little more robust. I really like hyper.

For frontends, I've wanted to try seed for a while, would be curious to hear how it goes if you do. For rust web servers, I'm most excited about tide but again, we're a little early for it to be ready for use.

As for whether Rust is "production-ready" in a general sense, I think there are domains where it absolutely is, but the big thing that needs to happen is a larger set of "1.0"-stable crates.

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Ghost

I guess we'll have to wait and see on the client side, in the server side I'm really happy so far with Actix-web, it was kinda hard for me at the start but once you start to get in the groove you even start to enjoy the API docs :D

PS: If you find yourself in the curious mode, take a look to SQLx (is a Rust SQL toolkit fully async with async-std and has forbidden non-safe code 8-o ) I just found it and look very promising, far from 1.0, but looks great.

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Ben Lovy Author

I was also thrilled with actix-web 0.7, but the 1.0 breaking change threw me for a lurch and I haven't spent the time to sit down and learn the new API - I really should.

I saw a reddit post about that - looks very cool. The Rust ecosystem is full of cool stuff. Today I'm playing with cxx, a safer way to interface C++<->Rust than bindgen. It's like getting cool new toys every day.

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Esteban Hernández

I liked Stencil at first but found event dispatching and handling to be unreliable and buggy. Haven't given it a second try in a while. Did you find handling events simple and reliable?

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David Dal Busco

I use many events and handlers and never had trouble related to Stencil, even the contrary, I found easy to implement and reliable. Events are a core mechanism of our editor.

Only difficulty I once had was with the selection API but that's not related to Stencil but rather with the platforms and the compatibility of such API with Shadow Dom.

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Ben Lovy Author

Interesting - that's good to know. So far in this app I've only handled onLoad and onClick and haven't needed to dispatch anything myself, so it's way too early to tell. How long ago did you try it?

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Esteban Hernández

I think around August. A lot of the event handlers would fire only once or not at all.

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Ben Lovy Author

Yikes. Will definitely be on the lookout for that, but so far so good.

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Sid

I've had a great experience so far in building apps with svelte and sapper and ability to include web components and output web components . It seems like a good move to bet on web components but the way to create them is extremely verbose . I have a broader solution workspace when building in svelte , it's so close to html, CSS and plain js that the barrier of entry is low . For the new web app projects , I recommend to have a setup where the solution can accommodate web / vanilla js components with a server side framework that does a lot of heavy lifting . We cannot future proof everything , but atleast be prepared for it when someone comes along with a game changing idea

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Ben Lovy Author

I've definitely still had my eye on this, next time I'm looking to set up a more interactive page I'd like to dive in.

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Raghav Misra

Angular is pretty similar syntactically to Stencil, for what I have seen. Also, Angular has a way to create web components called Angular Elements. I haven't looked in to it much, but it's seems cool

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Zane Milakovic

The big issue for me with stencil, besides looking like angular, which I didn’t like, is the state of web components.

I don’t believe in a thick client. Web components are great in concept, but they are still a thick client solution. You are forcing a lot of things into JavaScript that don’t have to be there. You are also not ready for prime time. There are issues across the board with web components.

It’s wonderful if you love the developer experience that stencil gives you. I think it’s fine that we can disagree on that.

I think it’s really bad for the output of that to be a experience that has gaps in browser support without a lot of polyfills, and moves things into a thick client so the developer experience could be what you had.

This is why I don’t care for react as well.

Svelte is the closest I found to something that gives me the output I want. But only when paired with static site generation. And even then, you end up with things that end up as templates in h Th e JS bundle that should remain as CSS and JS.

I also don’t think we should of moved routing to the client over the server. I have unpopular opinions, but I have been doing this for 20 years.

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Jeff

Looking like Angular

I do think it's odd to not prefer Stencil because of the way it looks, especially given how esoteric and non-standards-like Svelte is. But that's just me.

As far as browser support and output: Stencil is building on an actual standard. The output is standards-compliant JS plus a couple of helpful utils. Every JS library does this, almost by definition. And Stencil's impact is small: smaller than react, angulary, vue, litelement, or svelt. ionicframework.com/blog/announcing...

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Zane Milakovic

I mean there are many more reasons. I just don’t care for how Angular looks. But my comments were more about thick clients and the state of web components.

Web components are a standard. That is true. I am 100 percent on board with standards. But we are not ready for them. And the standard we ended up with is much worse than the standard we were suppose to get (thanks Safari).

Nothing I have seen has shown the output as smaller than Svelte. One of the reasons we ruled it out was because of browser support, and output size. But I may be miss remembering.

Either way, I will jump on web components, when it makes sense for the work that I do, and if the adoption curve gets better by the community.

In general, building them without a framework does not appeal to me. Having them, even if they are standard, does not appeal to me for numerous reasons. And using a framework to improve the developer experience, cool. But then I should be using something that builds something I actually want. Hence Svelte.

I am not hating on Stencil. It’s fine. I just don’t think I want this thick client web we make every site out of. And the current standard of web components does little to mitigate that, if we put css and html in JS.

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Jeff

"But we are not ready for them"

Why do you say that? I definitely think we're ready for them. Apple, Amazon, and Google are all shipping them to prod.

"Nothing I have seen has shown the output smaller than Svelte"

Open the article I posted earlier and check for yourself.

Stencil is the opposite of Thick UI. 0 framework, 0 esoteric syntax as in Svelte's case, just pure web-based development with a small vdom.

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Zane Milakovic

pianomanfrazier.com/post/comparing...

This is just one example. But yeah, it’s larger.

Web Components still require polyfills. The argument that these big companies ship them is fine, if you have the same user base as those companies and can alienate the same set of browser users.

I still have to support IE 11 for example. caniuse.com/#search=Web%20components

I mean, if they work for you, and your happy with the framework. Congrats. I don’t need to keep going against every point you want to try and dismiss. It’s simple. Moving CSS and HTML into JS is thick client still. Might be lighter weight than a virtual dom, but it has ramifications. I have to support a wider range of users than you, and hence can’t use the features without polyfills.

So like I said before, I don’t feel we are ready for mass adoptions. Most websites can’t abandon IE11 or Edge. And I won’t use a collection of polyfills just so I can develop with a framework. Why punish the user. They don’t care that your using web components. They just want the site to be fast and work. So use the technology that does that the best. For me, that is Svelte or just native HTML, CSS and JS.

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Ben Lovy Author

I don’t believe in a thick client.

This has generally been my leaning too, and why I like writing web servers a lot more than web clients - you're right, this is primarily a developer experience choice, but also partially educational. At least near me, TypeScript is a commonly seen job skill, and part of my motivation is working on it. I guess there's nothing stopping me from doing this in Node, which I hadn't really considered.

In general, all of these concerns are more than valid, and it's important to make sure there's continued development in that direction too. However, it is a reality, and becoming versed in it is important.

Svelte is the closest I found to something that gives me the output I want

When you refer to static site generation, do you mean Sapper specifically?

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Zane Milakovic

Yeah. Sapper is not ready for prime time as a live server imho.

I use sapper for my personal blog and for my company. The work I do for my company is a heavily modified version that solved a number of pain points. We opened PR for all of them to contribute back, but they have been siting since October.

But we made a decision to only use it for static gen.

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Gab

Looks like Angular and React had a baby

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Ben Lovy Author

Hah! Pretty much :)

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G.V.S Akhil

Haha funny but true

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Colum Ferry

Stencil syntax is v.similar to Angular.
Angular also provides a CLI tool to generate your components etc.

I think it's a great way to take a certain idea and take it to other areas of development, especially by making use of decorators.

If you were to go look at Nest.js which is a Backend Framework for node written in TS, I reckon you'd be able to understand what's going from the shared knowledge of what you've learned using Stencil.