Diner Das
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What language or ecosystem have you worked with for work that you would NEVER choose to work in again?
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Top comments (29)
PHP - felt like a language added on top of a templating system back in 2006. I know it keeps evolving, but I would rather start with languages that started as a programming language.
Ionic, never again. A pain in the arse
How long ago was that? Nowadays you can use it not just with Angular but also with React or Vue ... what was it exactly that you hated about it?
I stopped using it around 3 or 4 years ago I'd say, I stopped using it around the time Vue was added I think.
There are many reasons, it was inconsistent, I felt it was hack over hack, plugins gave loads of issues, docs lacked quite a bit, it made me work a lot more than other solutions. Build process was a pain too... I enjoyed using angular though, as I use it on other projects. My issue was mostly with all the layers and convoluted system.
I don't think I will give it another try in the near future, but I imagine it has improved in the last years though.
I have the impression they added too much cruft to it, and all kinds of tools (some free, some paid) in an attempt to monetize it and lock you into their ecosystem ... they're also pushing the "using web to build mobile apps is the best thing since sliced bread" mantra a lot.
At its core (the open source project) it's just a component library (CSS plus Angular/Vue/React wrappers) and that's probably fine - the whole ecosystem they built around it is what I never really cared about (but that's what probably makes them money).
What would you say are other (better) web-based solutions for building (mobile) apps?
Ohh true, I forgot about the paid stuff... I did not like that neither, though I guess it was kinda needed for them to sustain the project, as you say. The concept was kinda interesting at a technical level to me, though the DX was not the best...
I have only tried React Native, which felt a lot more powerfull and less convoluted, but still...
I'm currently working with flutter which is not web based, but after using it for 3-4 years I think that's the way to go. I see the value in using web-based solutions for building cross platform apps, as there are many developers who already know that technology, so the transtiotion is really small. And you can reuse stuff from your other web projects. But, and a big but, if you want to be happy and enjoy your work, flutter or going native is the way as far as my experience goes.
Let me tell you a little story, as I mentioned in the previous comment I stopped using Ionic 3-4 years ago, when we migrated one of our apps from Ionic to Flutter, this has been one of the best things we've done in our company. Before migrating, each update took months to polish and release, mostly because of Ionic (and in part because previous developers made quite the mess in the project). It became a bug machine, we release bugs instead of features or fixes... testing was a pain. I estimated the project had something like 3.5 years of tech debt in a 2yr old project. You can imagine the headaches and problems that came out of that.
Once we decided this was taking the company loads of time and money to maintain. We decided to go with flutter, and we can now ship faster, with less bugs, and the overall app looks a lot better, is more consistent, efficient and most importantly, it makes us want to work on it.
I'm a big flutter advocate, if that's not clear xD We're even using it to build web-apps now, and even though somewhat limited in some senses, it's quite nice to use too!
Have you tried any other better solutions? Would like to hear from you too, maybe I give them a check!
Oh yes Flutter, I can imagine that, I've heard many good things about it, a lot better even than about React Native ... yes if my core focus was mobile app development and a brilliant mobile UX, then I wouldn't touch Ionic or any web based solution with a barge pole lol - Flutter all the way ...
And if you just have a website that needs to be responsive and work on mobile, well then you don't need Ionic either, because it doesn't even target the desktop ...
So yeah, the Ionic folks are big on pushing the "web is the best for mobile" gospel, but TBH I'm not really lapping it up, lol.
(oh and Flutter nowadays can even target desktop and web, although I don't know how good that is)
P.S. I think the problem with Ionic is that in too many situations you need complicated hacks to "emulate" a decent mobile UX, while something like Flutter just gives you that naturally ... web based solutions like Ionic are EMULATING the native look & feel of mobile apps by styling generic HTML controls, that's the whole point I think
It just became stable for MacOS and Linux on the last release last week (3.0), Windows was stable for a couple of months before. It seems to be doing quite well, I have not tried it personally but as far as I know, it's quite nice as well!
Me neither, I don't think it's the way for most stuff but it has it's place though
Yup, that's the case as far as I can tell. React Native does a good job too, but I dont have as much experience with it to fully back that up...
Yes, I agree that for a certain category of (fairly simple) apps it has its place, mostly "content focused" apps without a lot of complicated functionality ... but you'd need to be fairly sure about your app being simple, and remaining simple, before you make that leap of faith ;)
Definitely VHDL. I hope I will never touch it again.
COBOL. It was backed up to a mishmash of .NET and Java web apps.
Never again! If it came out on punch cards back in the day, I don't want it!
I did a COBOL training program at Travelers as my second job! I ran away and took computer science classes after that.
My first ever SE job was a Uniface Developer. This was a few years ago so perhaps it's improved, but I wouldn't recommend the Uniface I experienced to anybody!
rocketsoftware.com/products/rocket...
R because of its dependency management. (I switched to Python)
I hear Java has gotten better since I last worked with it, but I still wouldn't take my chances getting involved in that environment again.
Why ? What is your replacement for it then : C#, Go, Rust, C++ ?
Foxpro/Visual Foxpro.
I don't mind the environment, but it's been discontinued, which I didn't know when I took my current job.
I myself wouldn't mind using FoxPro 2.6 for DOS again. I learnt its "brother" : Clipper, too, but never used it.
@10, 20 say "This tools is the 1st one from which I earned money" :)
Thanks to memorable days when I used it long time ago.
I think I still remember the stuffs like : scatter memvar, gather memvar, define windows, activate windows, .....
and its 4 words for short forms of its commands.
Oof. When greenfield work is defacto legacy code.
Go. I just didn't catch on their error handling.
Uh... please, don't discourage me... I plan to learn it intensively after reading good things some people said about it. I want to use it as a replacement for PHP.
Android Studio. Probably it's only my own experience, but every time that I tried to do some app dev using Java everything gets too verbose, heavy, and difficult to escalate, I've had a better experience using React native, maybe the performance isn't the same (I didn't noticed any difference), but the app can be exported also to iOS without rewriting everything from scratch and having 2 different codebases.
When you have to use native features on Android using React Native (RN), what will you do ? I am still planning to resume learning on RN, but from what I have read in its doc, this can be done using something like a bridge from RN to native code written in Java or Kotlin. But, for better understanding of using this approach, I myself need to learn Java or Kotlin before able to do this.
Probably PHP, but due to the market demands, esp with Laravel, it's highly unlikely.
Either python or perl.
Python showed me the definition of dependency hell.
Perl did nothing but depends management well for me
LabVIEW.
AngularJS, backboneJS, Play framework (Java version), and even possibly plain JavaScript.