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I'm sorry you went through that. This is obviously unhelpful if it's repeated and insensitive. Usually bullying comes from a lack of confidence or real experience. One of the tricks is to find a bigger bully or bigger mentor.
Finding someone who will evaluate the things he says and communicate them in a constructive way. Then help you tare down the bully. E.g. by reviewing the bullies code and finding problems/bugs. Giving you "ammunition" to respond.
Notice that this is a very unhealthy work environment. Ideally you should start job hunting and find a place that's good for you. A mentor can help you with that as well.
Well, I think that's a pretty bad attitude, to take revenge and I think that this would escalate the situation. Maybe it would be better to confront the person and if he starts being rude escalate to your manager.
Another tip is that your work is not you. You should not take code reviews personally. It's about the code, your practices and knowledge will develop over time.
Good luck.
I agree. It's VERY unhealthy and might leave you dissatisfied as well...
But sometimes bullies need to be torn down. Otherwise they keep coming after you and after everyone else, so it's not just about you.
It's the last resort.
One thing to consider in the approach is to bring concrete examples.
Have them share their intention, what they are trying to convey. Then share the impact of what they wrote in that PR. It is unlikely that the impact was part of their intention; but there are assholes everywhere so don't assume well intentions.
All of the above pre-supposes that this person does not have a significant difference in "organizational power/authority." If they do, you may need an ally (or third party) to help be present.
If there are any codes of conduct, anti-harassment policies, or contributing guidelines that might help you also frame the conversation.
All of this is tough, and I was previously in a position where an office bully was flinging their actual and perceived authority around; and they did it because no one stood up to them and they kept grabbing ground. Needless to say, I left, as have so many others.
I can't help but stress that engineers are in demand, not places to work. This means that your efficiency, experience, and environment matter more than the company in some areas. If you cannot thrive in your work environment, it's time for a new one.
Do you have some examples possibly? Sometimes I’ve found that the text I read from a person isn’t always the way they meant it. This isn’t a fault on anyone — we see the world as we are, after all. If the comments are calling you names, then yes, that is unprofessional and should be reported to HR. If not — if the comments just sound rude — well, that involves a one to one conversation to find out if that’s how the person intended their message to come across. Often times people are just unaware of how they come off on to others.
Like many forms of written communication, code review comments can both be interpreted as aggressive or can actually be aggressive due to the reduction in filter that people experience when sitting behind a screen.
I can think of several things you could consider trying:
Ask your colleague to go online and review your code with them, tell them you see that they are concerned about your work and that you want to understand their conclusions and how they get to them. Talking personally with people will often provide a deeper understanding on both sides and will hopefully reduce the tension and aggression levels considerably, quite possibly permanently.
Ask your line manager or team leader to provide further guidance on how reviews should be constructed as yours are causing you undue anxiety and stress which will eventually impact your productivity. Try to get the manager to review the process with the team. If your organisation has defined "values" - try to relate one or two of these to the issue you are facing.
Try to learn from anything they said that might be useful, then ignore and forget the rest.
If they crossed a line in professionalism then you have every right to file a complaint with HR. And should — it will help you and your team and your company… although waiting for HR to effect change may take longer than is helpful.
You will not be able to change this person, so do your best to avoid them. Also start keeping a file of screenshots and / or abusive comments. It may make you a feel a little better to have the behavior documented, and it will help prevent you being gaslighted if this ever comes back around and they try to undermine your claims. But, don’t share that list with anyone but HR, your manager, or your therapist, as that could put you in violation of work policies.
Finally, your best bet may be to talk to your manager. It is their job to lookout for you and your responsibility to let them know when you need help. This is a situation that a good manager can solve. And if if your manager fails you on this then it’s time to find another job at a company that does a better job of advocating for you.
Code reviews have no tone of voice which is what we need to keep telling ourselves. But if the comments are full of ideology you have to question the intent to belittle others with quotes that react is better because it's blue and you MUST use it because I like blue.
Or perhaps its...
See the problem with this question is that it's hard to know the specifics, the truth is you have 3 options, quit, threaten to quit, tell HR, tell manager, talk directly to X and tell them how Thier comments are making you feel it might help, better that being in hell
There is a certain way to introduce tone to your comments... I like using these when I can, they're called conventional comments, in the style of conventional commits conventionalcomments.org/
Thanks for the link , it's really helpful!
Okay for the world of code reviews, I love this idea but I think who are challenged with... Not having a heart they might skip this memo, none the less I will keep this in mind
I've experienced similar when I was a junior and to be honest it shaped my career because I knew I never wanted to be that dev. (Turned out the guy riding me, grinded on everyone and I even once witnessed a long term contractor square up to him and only drop his fist when our manager stepped between them as the punch was thrown)
My advice:
Quit! It's a poisonous environment! Get out of there ASAP!!
When others make comments about you, they are rarely talking about you. You are not present in their tiny prison cells with mirrored walls. They are alone.
They are talking to—and about—themselves. Like a bird with a mirror, they are fighting their own reflection. And often they project their own fear and anger onto you first to create that mirror.
Take yourself out of the equation. Imagine that they are reviewing someone else, not you. Now, look at their review. When you read it, do you think, Wow, this programmer sucks? Or do you think, Wow, this code reviewer is a total asshole?
For each specific comment (and ignore any that aren't specific as they are useless), ask yourself, Is this true or not?
If it is true, then this reviewer did you a favor by providing you with the information you need to improve. Agree that you should do that differently, and then do so, without fuss. Thank them genuinely. Excellent. Win for you. You look good. Smart. Professional. Humble.
Ignore everything else. It's either irrelevant, or not about you. Don't disagree. Don't comment. If it comes up again, change the subject to what you're doing to fix the true criticisms. And how you're making sure they don't reoccur. Maintain the focus. Don't allow yourself to be dragged into a fight. These people live to fight.
So do you need to do anything at all about this jerk? Probably not. If you can overcome your own negative reactions, then you can simply continue calmly and professionally and let your reviewer hang themself. And over time, as they realize (maybe) that they are the one looking bad, perhaps they'll change their own behavior.
If you can't help yourself and simply must say something, then don't do it publicly or you'll just back them further into a corner. Instead, take them aside and tell them that you are sensitive and that their tone and approach feel pretty brutal to you. That makes it about how you feel rather than about how evil they are, and gives them room to be "generous" and take into account your "sensitivity".
Let them think that they have the power. They are rude and brutal because they are insecure and always in fight mode. Imply (don't come right out and say it) that being kinder to you would show how smart and beneficent they are. Make them see that it would be a win for them (as it will). Good luck.
The odds of you changing this person's behavior are slim, so don't get your hopes up. The issues they are wrestling with did not start with you and are unlikely to end with you. But the real damage will be done to themselves. Try empathy.
Finally, I would take an aggressive asshole any day over a passive aggressive one. With the aggressive asshole, the aggression is right out in the open for everyone to see, so it can usually be ignored.
But with a passive aggressive, things look just fine on the surface. They have structured their review such that to a casual observer it will look as if they are deeply committed to helping, and in a kind way.
But you will know instantly that in reality they are patronizing you in the most condescending way, implying that you are too stupid to understand—but don't worry everyone, they are their to help you! What a hero!
If you make the mistake of complaining loudly, then they've got you. They will point out that they never said anything mean, claim they didn't mean it the way you took it, and seize the victim spot—the moral high ground. And that leaves you—the real victim—stuck in the victimizer role. And the more you try to dig yourself out, the deeper you'll dig the hole. You, not they, will be the bad guy.
There doesn't seem to be a cure for this, so maybe euthanasia for passive aggressives? Just sayin'.
Finally, ask yourself, Is this person really being brutal, or just blunt? It is easy to read dark motives into short comments in text. Things always look worse in print. Are they still brutal when you discuss it with them in person? If not, maybe stop worrying about their tone and just consider it part of living with other humans.
Personally I'd handle it by critiquing their comments: "Thanks for the feedback. In the future, can you try to keep the comments relevant to the changes made? I'd me more than happy to discuss your opinions on
some nitpick that he was rude aboutbut a pull request is probably not the forum for this.You mentioned that
insert weakest argument he made here. I would love to do your suggestion ofpoorest suggestion, however consideringxis a major factor I don't see how this suggestion solves this.Keep it professional and document his instances of being rude.
Yes, you probably should:
Escalate this to their manager if it would be helpful. Note, only do this if their manager is not a bully.
Start to look for another job if things don't improve soon.
I think it depends what is meant by "brutal". Some people are simply too busy to beat around the bush and will leave very direct feedback that can come across as "brutal", when that really isn't the intent.
In this case I would try and get into conversation with them about some appropriate feedback they've given and discuss ways to address it. If you're able to have a friendly discussion then it's likely that there's no ill intent. That might give you an opportunity to give them feedback on their approach to code review..
If on the other hand the feedback you receive is blatantly rude and unprofessional I would tell them directly that you think this is so, and inform your team lead that you have had this conversation. If you see no sign of improvement then go back to your team lead... Code review is supposed to be an opportunity to learn and share knowledge; not to vent your frustration on others.
Introduce them or the company to the Hamburger Method of putting criticism between constructive compliments.
see this quote and blog for more.
blogs.helsinki.fi/pirttila/files/2...
I've had that approach advocated in the past, but not by that name. The name I've always heard for it is the "shit sandwich".
Notice that this is a very unhealthy work environment. Ideally you should start job hunting and find a place that's good for you. A mentor can help you with that as well.
watchwrestlingonline
One thing to consider in the approach is to bring concrete examples.
Hi [code reviewer], could we talk over some of your recent pull request reviews. I want to hear more about your perspective and share tamildhoolserials.com my perspective as well. In particular, let's look at PR #1234.
Really?
I'm sorry you're going through this, some developers have low empathy.
You can give honest feedback without being rude. You "just" need to know how to communicate.
Have you tried addressing the problem with your engineering manager? Maybe explain to him how it makes you feel?
I can't see the example of brutal / rude feedback here. But I have two assumptions based on the thread:
If you are experiencing no. 1 it's no the other way around to stay patient and find another place that might have a better environment with clear policy. Wait until you sure that your new place is your new comfortable home.
If you are experiencing no.2 please discuss with him that you can't follow up his feedback because it's too intense and overwhelming. Or if you find some his/her feedback are not worth to read. Just skip that part and give your best value to him. Skipping unnecessary feedback on PR review is not a sin.
Whether you are experiencing no. 1 or no. 2 you have to communicate it to your manager (team lead, engineering manager, HR, etc.)
I feel that you are experiencing toxic culture. It's might be exists everywhere. You are just need to aware of this situation and find right and trusted colleague to share your bad experience and finally cope that issue.
As an additional, you can tell your HR. Your mental health is also matter. You are precious than rude feedback from your colleague.
You might read this article if you are available: developerexperience.io/problems/to...
Hope everything will be better for you.
You should ask yourself if ,even though he's brutal, he's right too. In my side, I'm never brutal but I have learnt a lot from brutal people.
There is this exercise you can do, which will simply get rid of the problem.
You can do it once, or a couple of times until "the problem" goes away.
There are variations that you can do also.
My secret:
Lift your shoulders up to your ears, and lower them again.
variation 1: lift your arms up too
variation 2: say "Huh" while lifting the shoulders
variation 3: combine 1 & 2
You can learn from each comment people make, as long as the play ball and not the person. If it's the other way around, make them see.
(and of course, there's always a vinegar pisser somewhere; they can't help themselves)
You can try connecting with those reviewers and discuss why they gave this type of feedback, and ask how you can improve. If still they are leaving this type of reviews then its probably their behaviour and you cannot do anything.
You can try discussing once with your manager/hr/boss. If they didn't support you it's better to look for another job.
Remember, only weak men are hard on others. Strong men are hard on themselves.
I'm saddened that some developers seem to have misunderstood our vocation as a purely technical endeavor instead of being about people on all levels.
Here's what I would do:
First, comment back on the unprofessional parts of his comments, as unemotional as possible, with the request to improve.
Keep it up for one or two weeks; if you see no improvement, point out the comment threads to your superiors and/or HR; try not to appear as a victim, instead show that you're interested in professionalism and that your call to improve was met with even more unprofessional behavior.
In the meantime, shape up your CV and look for a new job in case the latter doesn't have any effect.
Good luck!
If you feel like you cannot confront them about their form of feedback, that could be interpreted as harassment and should at least be brought up to your supervisor, manager, etc.
If the harassment continues:
If the manager is unwilling to address the concern, that is when the backup plan of seeking another position comes in.
Make sure you have a written offer letter from another position before approaching the manger again.
This marks 3 times of bringing up your concerns to management and they have not been cooperative in providing a positive work environment. At this point, you will bring in HR to discuss ways to improve the situation or depart the company on good terms.
I think, reviews and comments are good only when they sound good. They are not meant to insult someone's code or logic in any way.
If there is a suggestions, the review should do so without raising a finger on you.
If it requires change, then they should just mention it.
Giving offensive review is basically not a review. You talk politely to somone more senior than him and make him understand how you feel or what you think about the reviews if possible.
Searching for a new job is also a good choice.
Notice that this is a very unhealthy work environment. Ideally you should start job hunting and find a place that's good for you. A mentor can help you with that as well.
watchwrestlinginc.com
I encountered this at a previous job and spoke with the person privately and let him know how his code review style was coming across and that it was hurting the team morale and trust. Regardless of whether you feel comfortable doing that or not, it’s always helpful to have a broader conversation about code review expectations as a team in a way that doesn’t call anyone out individually. I’ve found this to be a great starting place for discussion: mtlynch.io/human-code-reviews-1/
What does the "brutal and rude feedback" look like?
Did this person call your family names or wish you the worst things to happen?
Or straightforwardly pointed out your mistakes?
If the first one, then this person doesn't deserve your respect and tell it to the upper management (e.g. HR. PM or tech lead).
If the second one, then take their response with a grain of salt. It looks like you took it absolutely to the heart, which is wrong because you are not the code, you're only the person that wrote it.
My condolences when you have such a colleague, anyway, you should listen, analyze and find out, whether the reflection is true? stand in the position of always listening and changing, but if not, you can meet and speak in person. I think it is stickman boost.
I am also dealing with bully worker as the worker is on lead side of things and the BULLY is friend of the CEO of startup while I am an introvert worker who is shifting to WFO from WFH ( pre-covid ). He is such a bully even when I said he is blocking my tickets as I was on UI side and he was on backend side; he started calling me and started lashing out ( saying mean words and in a rude tone ). I am thinking to leave the company but purchasing power in my city is already so low, can't leave Job right at the moment.
So I feel you bruh they are always bad apples which heart us polite and loyal workers.
Maybe it would be better to confront the person and if he starts being rude escalate to your manager.
doramasmp4
Wonderful post
One of the tricks is to find a bigger bully or bigger mentor. estrenosdoramas
I agree. It's VERY unhealthy and might leave you dissatisfied as well...
watchwrestling
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Ideally you should start job hunting and find a place that's good for you doramasflix
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