What’s your path?
Ben Halpern
Posted on
If you mostly write code for your day-to-day, do you have plans to get promoted out of that situation?
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Top comments (60)
Oh man! You know how to kill it with these conversations.
No! I don't want to be promoted. I don't want the added responsibility of watching others code. However, I did not get this opportunity. I got the promotion. Guess what? It made me grow, and it made me realize that I don't want to be a lead of a team.
I just want to write code. I want to architect systems. I want to write tests.
But then again, I want to share my knowledge with others and help them. So shit. What am I to do?
Present at conferences?
That requires courage! And a whole lot more knowledge than I possess!
Love the idea though. Career goals.
Courage can't exist without a little fear. And I'm sure there's tons of conferences or MeetUp groups with shorter timeframes. Don't need to host an hour off the bat.
Or you could find a way to create a hackathon (especially for students) and offer your expertise to get them through issues.
You're a developer, it means you like solving problems. I'm sure you'll reach those goals and plenty you haven't yet thought about.
That's 90% me ❤️. Except the part that I don't mind watching other people code. Maybe it's the places I've worked for but managerial position always had too much bureaucracy
So I don't mind watching others code. The thing that I don't want to do is babysit others as they code. I want to be able to do a solid code review, know that what they added is tested, add my comments and be on my way.
I really like watching other people code, I learn a hell of a lot by doing so.
You don't architect systems. You architect teams. If you are writing code by yourself, then you don't need that much architecture.
The real need of architecture comes when you have a codebase shared among tens or hundreds of people, and you don't want them to convert the system into a massive blob of chaos as they add features to it.
So, when you are architecting, what you are defining is how the teams will interact with each other.
Because of that, an engineering lead needs to have people skills as well.
You do architect the system. You put forth the standards that others on the team need to follow.
While I do agree with you that you need to have people skills, the system absolutely needs to be architected. There needs to be someone at the head approving and disapproving. This ensures congruence across the entire application.
I am not saying that you have to be a dick to be an architect. You just have to know how to make one hell of an application. You have to ensure its consistency or its ultimate demise.
I didn't explain myself well in my last comment.
What I mean is that any software architecture needs to be humans-first rather than technology-first.
Some programmers choose architectures because they look cool from a technology point of view, and they fail to understand the human component this technology is trying to solve.
The first thing that needs to be architected is always your teams and, then, find the best technological solution that fits those teams.
But that means that, as an architect, you need to be managing other people.
Great points!
I agree whole heartedly. There are always two sides to every coin. I think that in the long run you will always have the human element to deal with.
This is not a bad thing. Like I said my teammates are amazing and I love them. I just don't want the responsibility of being in charge of them. There are amazing people out there who do just that. I don't think that I am one of them.
At my last company there were two advancement routes for engineers, one leading to CTO and the other to Enterprise Architect. The CTO was a people manager. The EA was a programmer on critical systems who didn't have to do any people managing, but people often went to him for advice on big important questions. Sounds like the perfect role for you.
Enterprise Architect sounds right up my alley. I have a whole lot to learn to get to that point, but thank you for pointing out a viable direction!
Technical specialist?
I'm down.
People who have a responsibility in the software development process and who do not write code are useless to me.
I plan to never stop writing code.
However, already at this time I do not write code every day. I do develop software every working day. Writing code is just one part of developing software. It is also a part where most problems materialize.
Better question: do you even want to? It saddens me when 'writing code' is treated as a stepping stone to management or operations. Development is its own fully qualified career path. Like @Same Ringleman states stated "I dont want to be promoted". Why is moving away from 'coding' considered a move 'up'? This is totally not right. :MAN:agement keeping us down!
"People who have a responsibility in the software development process and who do not write code are useless to me." - @Michiel Hendriks
Never stop writing, never stop growing. The minute you move away from writing code daily, you start dying inside.
This was my thought.
Moving to management is not a promotion, it's a lateral career change. The two require vastly different skill sets.
Likewise, moving from management to coding isn't a demotion, either.
110% agree... now to make that a reality...
Viewing management vs individual contributor as parallel tracks (vs promotion/demotion) is fundamentally a cultural thing.
In other words, you can make it a reality by treating it as a reality. :)
Thanks for the shout out!
I agree with this so much. I don't wan't to stop coding, because I don't want to stop learning. Not that learning other skillsets are not important, they are just not my top priority. I chose this craft because it is my passion and I am good at it. I did not choose this path so I could wind up in management.
Give me more responsibility by letting me design and build large effective systems. I am a team player through and through, in fact I love my teammates. I have made some of the best friends I have ever had in this industry! But I don't want to manage them. I want to learn and build with them.
Hell, no. I spent over a decade in a field that wasn't a good fit for me before I became a developer. I'm categorically not interested in being anyone's line manager.
I like being a developer, I like mentoring and coaching others, and I like solving problems. I've got no interest in leaving it behind.
Having been promoted to senior, lead and then principal and then choosing to take an individual contributor I have to say I prefer the managerial roles and use it to inspire, lead by example, and help others with professional development along with making sure engineering tasks are on schedule. I am a teacher though and love mentoring others so that helps. Not everyone has the personality for that kind of leadership role and often the wrong people end up in it.
Just because you progress to a leadership role doesn’t mean you should just stop coding. On the contrary, you should never stop doing what you love. Ya never know you just may end up being an individual contributor again.
I have been presenting at meetups and conferences this past year. Next step is authoring a book and it’s in the works. I’m gonna keep the next bit under wraps for now but it’s exciting! Here’s the only advice I really have. If you lose the spark, stop everything and take a break and reevaluate what your goals are. Maybe you will find out something about yourself in the process.
I'd be happy to get promoted into writing code every day. As the sole tech person at my small company, I'm often interrupted to do non-code things (usually of the "have you tried turning it off and on again?" variety).
I suspect somewhere down the line, I would enjoy managing in programming. There's nothing special about typing the code myself. I enjoy thinking about the problems and imagining the possible solutions more than banging it out. If only I can figure out a path from where I'm at to there...
I cannot wait for this to become a reality for you!
Don't let it be too long though, chase after that. If you want to code, find a place where that is what you do.
After working for a decent amount of years and reading on the topic, I can say, that I don't want to get too far from writing the code.
I've been working in small teams mostly where my responsibilities were never limited to just "writing code", which is good in my opinion. I also haven't worked for companies with a clear "career ladder", so it's hard to see all the options.
I have led projects and tiny teams, and I'm interested in expanding this experience, but still staying technical.
I love this post on the topic.
The day they ask me to stop writing code in my job, is the day I will look for another job. I switched careers years ago, cause I realised that what I like to do is coding. I fully intend to keep writing code for as long as there are still people willing to pay me for this, and for as long as I still have a passion for it.
Not really -- not looking to get promoted as I promote myself. I'm kind of a split really in a few ways. I have the management education, I just kind of use it for myself and for myself. If I can help others, great. Mostly I do psychological safety sort of stuff as some places can really use it - making it safe for people to talk to help move things along. I try to mentor when someone needs it and I consider that a form of leadership. :)
I have a fair amount of autonomy in what I'm doing right now, so I'm pretty satisfied, so I grow myself. Take extra classes, learn new stuff online, take another project using different skills - some soft skills as well. Talking directly to clients, new projects from time-to-time, doing bug reports...
If I went to executive levels, there is a chance I would be unhappy as I like doing my craft - I like the tactical the most. Probably preference.
I am really surprised by the virtually unanimous "hell no" response on this thread. Though, since this is a (fantastic) community of dev enthusiasts, I probably shouldn't be surprised.
I am still trying to find my path, but I am seeing more and more that I can add a lot of value through non-coding tasks. Sometimes, these non-coding tasks add a lot more value than the coding tasks. Anything I can do to organize the efforts of a team, improve processes, and help find new technical directions for the business will undoubtedly add more value than spending the same amount of time on code. Sure, lots of code still needs to be written, but I am not sure it needs to be written by me.
Now I do respect the preferences of others and recognize that "management" activities are not for everyone (I too dislike many of these tasks). And maybe this is just me rationalizing the reduced coding time I am already seeing. However, I love solving problems, I want to provide as much value as possible, and I am starting to see how being a "technical manager" might be a better use of my time/skillset than a "technical contributor".
As a follow-up, my interpretation of @ben 's question is that you would transition from primarily writing code to primarily something else -- leaving open the possibility for being a manager who at least occasionally dips into the code (which is something I always imagine doing).
I just want to "git gud" at writing code, and get paid market rate for doing so, tbh. I'm not much of a people person: I have asperger's. I love to code and to learn more about coding, and that's what I want to be doing when I "retire".
Honestly no idea yet. While agesim is still a thing, I'm hopeful this will get better over time in which it will be less common for older devs to make a switch. Team lead has its benefits and negatives (like any position) and I'm still trying to picture myself in that kind of role.
Coding by itself should NEVER take anyone far.
Coding is just filling codes into files, I know it's a daunting task, but not so many will appreciate that job.
Actually, "coders" are treated like toilet paper (used then thrown)... You realize that once you see a high turnover rate in many companies.
Now here is the thing, "coders" are very different than "engineers" or "developers" or whatever higher rank.
Those are more valuable to the business, they're more recognized, and they get promoted faster (even into managerial positions).
Well, tech by itself is such a tiny bit of the world that it won't take one far either - after all, people are quite more complex than that so relying on only one skill shouldn't even be something to contemplate, no.
That being said, the crucial thing is really the what and with whom - the companies you mention really sound like the usual fashion-chasing (not to say chumpatrons directly) places so not even promotions there are going to do much for anyone (quite on the contrary really but that's for another day).
I plan to continue mentoring while remaining focused on the priorities of the business. You can do both, especially if you love people.
I don’t think it would be a stretch to say that most developers only want to write code. A large percentage of the remainder—those that want to take on leadership roles—have had the employee mindset beat into them most of their lives and might not be able to fall in love with the business side of things.
Then again, once you have a business mindset, it becomes more and more difficult not to start your own!
6 months ago I got promoted to a mix of tech lead/product owner covering 3 teams and 16 devs. Now I got promoted again to be the manager leading all 62 devs in the organization. I have to say: I want to program again!