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Brenda Limón
Brenda Limón

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SHE CAN CODE!

I'm so happy to be accepted in Dev.to, even when I'm just a poor beginner who needs help with her english writing. I feel bad today, and I wanted to share with you something that's happening in Mexico, if not in the entire world.

If you read one of my first posts, you’ll know I'm a beginner, a baby in code, I have a communications degree but what I want for life is create awesome things with code. I don't know where you are, but at least in Mexico having a bachelor degree is essential because of status, but in the tech environment a paper can't proof your abilities, if you can code, you'll show your code to prove it. Of course, if you can study a software career it's better.

Anyway, I got my degree 2 months ago and started studying on my own, searching for a job in a communications area but in a tech company, so I can be in the area that I wanted. A couple of friends freaked out, telling me that I haded to just get a job for communications and stay there, communications is a women's career, programming is for nerd men. We're in 2018, those comments shouldn't exist.

There are organizations like Epic Queen, Laboratoria, and Women who Code where women are welcome to become a developer, because the women on science, engineers, developers or involved in tech is increasing, but the mentality is that "it's a men thing". Instead of discussing, scream or have an explosive reaction with my friends, I ask them for an explanation, 2 men trying to convince me, for not saying themselves, why men are better than women in science/tech. This was some of their points:

  1. Women needs take more time.
    Getting ready, getting pregnant. They said that men in tech can forget the entire world, they don't need "love" or relationships like women, they can stay in a lab or an office for three days and get more results than a group of women who can't stand even a day. I know, what kind of people are they?

  2. Men have the skill of being a boss, a CEO, women don't.
    "Obviously", the boss have to be manly to give confidence to the employees and make better deals, they don't worry about the company because a man is in charge, but if it's a woman, how can they be sure she's not gonna get "bipolar" and do something stupid, or during their period she's gonna fired everyone. I mean, how stupid can someone be?

  3. WE ARE FRAGILE.
    They can't say their opinion to a woman because they're gonna hurt her feelings, and if they do that, we become a bunch of "bitches" (sorry for the word).

To work in tech it's needed passion, discipline, teamwork, and vision, according to me, any career, work, project or anything according to a professional life requires that to be successful, and it has nothing to do with gender.

In Mexico City, I've found a lot of mentalities, but most of the tech environment welcomes women because we are as good as men, not better, equal. I can't go ask for a job when I know the basic of the basic and get mad because I didn't get it, we are not looking for exceptions, we're looking the opportunity to proof ourselves, like every human on this planet.

At the end, I told my "friends" to search Safra A. Catz, Susan Wojcicki, Sheryl Sandberg and some other amazing women. We can do wathever we want, all of us, women and men, men and women, we're not under nobody, and even if I'm a baby developer I'm sure of something: I CAN CODE.

Thanks for reading me, just wanted to get this out of my chest.

Hugs & Husky love! 🐶👩🏻‍💻

Top comments (85)

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kspeakman profile image
Kasey Speakman • Edited

They are probably not aware that women have played a foundational role in computer science history. Look up Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, or Margaret Hamilton just to name a few.

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lionmillionair profile image
CoconutKang

Grace holds a special place in my heart. Because most of my family is military. One of my favorite figures.

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

Thanks Kasey! There’s so many amazing women across the history of technology that we should write a post only for them.

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aspittel profile image
Ali Spittel

Hey! You got this! I've gotten some similar comments in my life, but I've been doing this whole code thing for a while now and I still love it. Check out the #SheCoded tag on here -- lots of stories from other women developers -- here's mine! If you ever need a peptalk, feel free to reach out!

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

Your post is awesome Ali! 👏 thanks for your support!

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aspittel profile image
Ali Spittel

For sure!

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liana profile image
Liana Felt (she/her) • Edited

Yes you can!! Don't listen to what these people are telling you, keep coding and don't give up!

Also don't forget about the ENIAC programmers -- 6 brilliant women.

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

Thanks Liana! I’ll investigate about them! 😊👩🏻‍💻

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tux0r profile image
tux0r

ENIAC programming was a manual task, basically "rewiring cables". I would not say that those weren't brilliant - it's just that their job was totally not what we today call "programming".

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kspeakman profile image
Kasey Speakman

Punching holes in paper was also programming at some point...

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dwd profile image
Dave Cridland

In the old days, electronic computers fell into two camps - analog and digital. These days, digital computers have taken over, mostly because of stored program capabilities, but both were originally programmed by wiring as needed. It's not what we today call programming.

The first stored program computers were, in turn, programmed by entering the numeric opcodes and supporting data directly into memory (often via a separate programming board). It's not what we today call programming.

Rapidly, though, Kathleen Booth (Britten at the time) developed the first assembly language in 1947, and assemblers were developed from this - you then programmed by writing symbolic instructions that mapped directly to opcodes. It's not what we today call programming.

Then Grace Hopper developed a high-level portable language, previously largely considered impossible, and this (alongside Jean Sammet and others' work) lead to the development of COBOL in 1959. It's not what we today call programming.

Later, Mary Kennth Keller and others developed BASIC, a simple symbolc language especially designed for teaching. It's not what we today call programming.

These days, everyone just does stuff in Javascript in a web browser. That's not what I call programming.

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dwd profile image
Dave Cridland

Oh, there were some guys involved too, I think.

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tux0r profile image
tux0r

What do you call programming then?

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dwd profile image
Dave Cridland

Actually, I call all of them programming, I was just letting my inner snark fly free.

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pcharbon70 profile image
Pascal Charbonneau

Interestingly all those languages you mentioned were part of my journey as a programmer. From BASIC on the VIC-20, through Assembly and COBOL.

So I do owe some gratitude to all those amazing women who made me the coder I am today.

Thanks for reminding me of our history :)

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drewstaylor profile image
Drew Taylor • Edited

@tux0r ty for your mansplaining ∩༼˵☯‿☯˵༽つ¤=[]:::::>

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tux0r profile image
tux0r

Did you just assume my gender?

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drewstaylor profile image
Drew Taylor

Definitely! Prove me wrong.

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tux0r profile image
tux0r

Damnit. You win.

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pavonz profile image
Andrea Pavoni

I think this sums it all:

we are as good as men, not better, equal. I can't go and ask for a job when I know the basic of the basic and get mad because I didn't get it, we are not looking for exceptions, we're looking the opportunity to proof ourselves, like every human on this planet

You're going to be great at your job, good luck! 🖖

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

So glad you liked it Andrea!

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ben profile image
Ben Halpern

Brenda, at this pace I'm pretty sure in a few years you'll be running a software team.

No time for haters!

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

Thanks Ben, you’re right, I shouldn’t waste time feeling bad about this, instead I just have to keep working and be the person that I wanna be, not because of them, because of me.

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jenshine profile image
jenshine • Edited

Yeah, no need to go out of the way to prove anything. Just do your thing because you want to not because someone else says you can't. You're already to a great start bc you have the right attitude!

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chrisdsaldivar profile image
Chris Saldivar

I assisted in an intro to programming course for 3 semesters and the best student I ever had in there was a Journalism major that hadn't written a single line of code before that class. But by the end of the semester she had a deeper understanding of the material than the CS majors. She got there by working hard, asking for help when she needed to and self study outside of class. I tell the upper level CS majors time and time again that the biggest predictor of success isn't how smart or how good they are but rather how hard they work.

Forget what those people said just keep working hard and learning and you'll get to where you want to be!

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

Thanks Chris, that’s amazing I’ll like to know that student :)

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lynnewritescode profile image
Lynne Finnigan • Edited

These comments are awful :(

No one should discourage you from what you want to do in life.

I'm fortunate enough to have worked with 3 other female developers in the one (small) company at one point.

There are plenty of awesome females in tech to look up to, and a lot of the other comments have mentioned some of them.

Check out:
codelikeagirl.org/
twitter.com/kodewithklossy
twitter.com/madewithcode
twitter.com/LeaVerou
twitter.com/TimeaTabori
twitter.com/Veronica
twitter.com/chmodxx_

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tux0r profile image
tux0r

I would especially read this tweet by (the awesome) Lea Verou:

We are developers, not "women developers". Introspect why you’re so astonished that someone did well in tech while sporting a vagina.

So this whole discussion is probably wrong.

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lynnewritescode profile image
Lynne Finnigan

I agree with her tweet, but this whole discussion is not wrong.

People who have those opinions like her friends, have that opinion because it is a male dominated industry and that's what they see.

So we need to see more women in those roles, encouraging other women and younger generations so that it is a more balanced field in general.

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

I also agree with this tweet, that’s why I said we are not looking for exceptions, just the opportunity to proof ourselves like everyone else, nothing of favoritism. I’ll search for Lea Verou :) thanks!

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

I’ll look up for all this amazing women Lynne :) thanks for sharing!

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ajstharsanradus28 profile image
Radus28 Software Solutions • Edited

Those 3 points you put from the 2 gentlemen are probably 2 decades older. I believe things have changed much. Anyway, my feeling is why women are still taking those points/hints too serious and reluctant to come out of the barriers. I know it discourages them serious. But that is the challenge here. They should find positive and ideal way/s to break the barriers. You, that means women, are the right people to do, not men.

You remember there are plenty of men, who supports and appreciate women who are taking responsibilities. They need not to be male feminist. But I strongly believe, You, that means women, are the right people to find ways. Here are few points to achieve

  1. Prove the skills
  2. Show the out-come
  3. Take all those barriers as challenges
  4. Women should be the right people to find out alternatives to physical barriers.
  5. This is not only mens's world, its a world for men and women.
  6. Think, each recognition you are getting is not only a step in your life, you are building steps to next generation too.

Everyone will start to appreciate you slowly :)

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jrtibbetts profile image
Jason R Tibbetts

Those 3 points you put from the 2 gentlemen are probably 2 decades older.

Please don't ascribe it to their age. I'm a man, and I'm almost certainly 2 decades older than Ms. Zam, yet I can't think of a single time that I've doubted a woman's ability to do the same work that men can in this field. I'd be a hypocrite if I ever did, seeing as how my mother was a software developer for 30 years, and my CS graduate adviser, most of my bosses, and many coworkers were (are) women.

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

I believe the mindset of each person is according to the social environment, their personality and ambition to make in any way a better place for all of us, men and women. As I told Ben, I’ll consider my studies and goals as something I wanna do for myself, not because someone told me I can’t. Each step closer to my goal will make the difference, as you said, but this, like everything, it’s a team work, or at least that’s what I think so.
Thanks a lot!

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rhymes profile image
rhymes

I'm so glad I opened this thread and read the supporting comments you received.

Fortunately you can find a support system in here and in many amazing groups online.

You have a great attitude.

Let them self combust in their own hatred, in the meantime you do you :-)

A few badass women you could follow on Twitter:

:-)

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

I’ll look up for them :) thanks rhymes!

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rhymes profile image
rhymes

Also this post from engineering intern at Slack should give you a boost of confidence :-)

slack.engineering/re-architecting-...

There are work places out there that value women's contribution to tech, fortunately!

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darksmile92 profile image
Robin Kretzschmar

You nailed it! I've heard this so many times from women in my field and every single one of them had a point in time where they sat at home and questioned their job decision because of a a harassing comment form a man.

Most of the time men are afraid a woman is better and it would eventually shrink their self esteem. For me this only means they are weak and have to get comforted to loose this attitude. We can all learn from each other and teams work best together, especially when it comes to developing!

Keep up this mind setting and don't let stupid comments get to you (no matter if from a woman or a man)!

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brendalimon profile image
Brenda Limón

That’s true, because there’s a lot of men and women who think this way. Thanks Robin!

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archonic profile image
Archonic • Edited

A company I used to work for hired 3 junior developers, 2 guys and one woman. The only one that was still hired a year later was the woman. She's honestly the only junior developer I would have hired myself. Stick with it and good luck!

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tiffanystallings profile image
Tiffany Stallings

I'm very lucky to have broken into the industry surrounded by young men who value and respect my contributions as a colleague. Of course, it certainly helps that I'm good at my job. But I like to think that there's hope as the trends of major progressive cities like mine tend to seep into the culture of surrounding areas over time.

On my team our lead developer is a woman (overseeing a large multi-million dollar project, I might add), as is one of our strongest front end developers. Women have a definite place in this industry, and I can almost guarantee you can land at a company that cares more about the quality of your code than your gender.

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hamsterasesino profile image
Gabriel

I studied my CS major in Spain, after which I worked for a year and a half in Madrid where my director was a woman and some of my best colleagues were women as well. After that I moved to Ireland and worked for two years in Dublin, in an environment with more than 30 different nationalities, men (85%) and women (15%) and then again worked with excellent professionals from both genders.

Leaving aside the vast majority of men in IT, I can tell you the following:

  1. Throughout my career, all the way from college up to where I am now, I have never heard anybody make a sexist comment towards women in tech (nor any other engineering). Even better, guys often complain that there aren't enough women.
  2. Women are as capable as men for the job.
  3. Women never got paid less than their male counterparts.
  4. The distribution of management / lead roles is still mostly men but if we see the ratio of roughly 80/20 for men and women, I have seen management in the order of 70/30, meaning that for all there is, many women succeed in their careers.

So, to be honest when I see posts like this one the first thought that comes to my mind is GET THE HELL OUT. From where? From the toxic circles or workplaces or cultures and countries that allow those individuals to thrive.

Should I make a comment like that to a colleague, and I'd be with one foot out of the office already. But to be fair, I wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place.

Life is too short for BS. The world has never been smaller. Find your place and don't listen to petty little humans with petty little minds.

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lionmillionair profile image
CoconutKang

Agree with this. I have never seen any kind of discrimination in the workplace before. In my line of work having a diverse group makes for a better knowledge pool overall in majority of cases. But getting less pay? Declarations of being less capable I haven't even seen a hint of this and I live in a country where it supposedly happens all around me.

Not saying it doesn't happen but I have worked in a lot of companies so far and haven't seen it yet.

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jhotterbeekx profile image
John Hotterbeekx

I don't believe there is any reason why a man should be more suitable to work as a software developer than a woman. Any qualified person should be able to do this job it they want.

It still seems weird to me that such things stay so stereotyped. Software engineers are some of the most sought for people in our country, but still if you tell people you are going to study it the assumption is made you are some kind of nerd.

Even worse is this seems an infinite loop. Because of the reaction people get, a lot of them will believe this stereotype and place themselves in this stereotype, often shattering self confidence. And because this happens people will think the stereotype is correct and it stays in place.

I'd say, everybody should go for the job they want. Don't let other people tell you different and don't let other people influence you negatively because of stereotype images they have about a group of people.

I really hope you'll have a lot of fun in your career! :)

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pontusk profile image
Pontus Karlsson

Discounting the blatant sexism, if that is what those people think makes for good programmers, or employees in any field, they have no clue. Programming requires team work. A company with good work environment and a good mix of people will beat out a company of anti-social nerds any day.

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