When dev team members started to look towards me for advice. Also being able to communicate technical things to others tailored to their roles (editorial, design, pm, and stakeholder)
When I started getting annoyed that others saw me as a junior.
In order to change others opinions, you have to first believe it yourself.
I had this step in a different career. But I enjoy the sense of humility as a junior in tech
Once I stopped asking myself whether I could actually build something. Nowadays the question is not if it can be built, but instead how long it will take. But, I still don't view myself as an above average dev. :)
I second this thought.
Being able to see a project in all of its sides - even the ones you're not skilled on - and to take decisions about them is what it makes the difference to me.
That doesn't mean you won't ask for advices, of course, but rather asking them not with a "How am I supposed to do that?" attitude, but with a "I think I'll do it like this, do you think it can be improved?" state of mind instead.
I sometimes think like this, it just the problem of how long to build it
But actually, time is money, right?
besides there are many problems and skills needed to be considered
how fast is it?
how scalability is it?
how he/she works in team?
P/S: recently I join a project which was implemented so poorly and had many issues of performance and now losing customers due to that.
What? You mean it stops at some point? :)
I don't know that I ever specifically thought of myself as a junior/newbie, largely because I went through my early programming days as a hobbyist in junior high and high school. I did start specifically thinking of myself as solidly mid-level/senior when I became able to and comfortable in asserting myself and my opinions and ideas at work, and advocate for the ideas I cared about, I think.
I'm curious about why you're asking this question. I worry that terms like "junior" or "newbie" set up a hierarchy that doesn't need to exist. It can lead to "vertical" thinking - "I'm new at this, so I'm underneath or less than the people who aren't new at this."
In reality as I experience it, everybody is a newbie at something, and folks who aren't consistently placing themselves in a newbie position are stagnating.
Any project has different aspects that will apply to folks of all experience levels - design, problem-solving, documentation, support, etc. A well-orchestrated project will apply folks to relevant problems according to their experience, without placing a judgement on which experience is better. In most cases, it's better to have a variety of experience levels on a team, so that people can have problems to solve that they aren't yet jaded about, or bored of solving, or can't yet get their minds around. It's not that your "worthiness" increases as you gain experience, it's that you are a natural fit for different sorts of problems.
I started to feel like I wasn't a newbie when I could start having productive conversations with more senior employees about the requirements and functionality of an application.
Knowing how to write code is one thing, but to have a vested interest in developing a product and contributing to it from design to production meaningfully is what made me really feel like I was a solid contributor.
I realized I was seeing only the the first inception level.
After you master one insignificant sliver of software craftsmanship, you look up to realize there has been a firehose pointed at your face the whole time. Learning to drink becomes more important than the specifics of any one skill in particular. You get used to it.
For new skills, I still feel like a junior starting out. But, that does not last too long anymore.
I am starting to pick up Node. It's not my first language. It will not be my last.
The first time I was assigned to build an entire web application for a real company who they were actually expecting to get money back from the product I was about to build.
I haven't even finished my BsC yet. I was lucky though to have a PM that was actually very gentle with me and even on times that I was screwing up, he always had my back. That project took a few months to complete but the company discontinued it after some time. I then learned that they built it just to get some government funds so they weren't really up to make it a business.
Nevertheless, that was the moment I realized I couldn't just play anymore, I had to pull my self together, read my ass off, work harder to meet the requirements, build great products for people that are willing to trust me with their businesses. Most importantly, I learned how to respect the craft, or art if you will, of programming.
Aw man, I have a lot more to write. It's such a big subject and I truly believe that people think of this a lot, especially newcomers to this job.
I need to organize my thoughts more, thanks for the great question. 😎
DISCLAIMER: I am still trying hard to think of my self as a junior. I am learning new stuff every day, just like 5 years and 10 years ago.
I’m starting to form opinions about software and its construction and writing about those opinions on my blog (soon!) as well as not taking whatever a senior dev says as gospel truth. I’m also not asking how to build small apps. This signals to me that I’m at least an intermediate junior, no longer “new”.
When my approach started to change from how much code I should write to how much I shouldn't write.
When I started to see problems in design before they even got to development.
When I started to build up a series of small solutions in order to solve a larger problem.
Knowing how abstraction works both visually and technically.
Working as a remote freelancer almost since I graduated from CS engineering school, it took me a while to get there. I think I started to stop thinking that when I started to have to refuse new clients, got contacted for senior positions opportunities & got invited to join "restricted" freelance network like toptal for instance.
When my Google searches started to decrease to minimal, and I got stuck less often. Also, I stopped needing a lot of help from other team members and could be doing a task from start to end without asking much.
When people didn't report too many issues when reviewing my code and I started giving discussing features and arguing about how features should be built.
To be honest I'm still struggling with this fact. I mean everytime there's a new tech to learn.
I love that there's so much I don't know and will never learn and I'm still a perfectly fine dev. 😋
Junior/Newbie is relative, and it is easy to become the big fish in a small pond. I continue to think of myself as junior though, because I hardly understand lots of the things that I am interested in learning or researching.
Hmm. I still think of myself as a junior dev in some ways. Junior as in, I see my flaws, where I would like to improve and learn more. However, I know that I'm not a junior dev when people on my team and beyond see me as a resource.
...stopped thinking as a junior developer? Luckily I haven't thought of thinking so, also won't ever. The day I'll think about the same I'll no more be able to grind my brain anymore.
I think in my first role there came a point in time where I realised that I was actually contributing to the team and my ideas didn't sound crazy to others.
I was taken seriously and noticed that others were. It was also the first time I thought "Crikey! I'm not too bad at this!"
When I was working for a company that automatically made any programmer a "senior" after they'd been there for two years, regardless of their abilities.
I wasn't a programmer, so I was exempt from this policy and had been there three years. Everyone else in my department left, making me de facto in charge, and I realised that I was handling it ok.
When I eventually changed jobs, I just called myself a senior, and it felt right.
I think I did when it disappeared from my job title once I changed job.
I guess though that the right thing to do is never stop to think about yourself as a junior, in every field there is always something new to learn, and there will always be someone who knows more than you do. As a personal rule I never let my job title blind me.
I've been working for about 2.5 years full time, and I worked about a year part-time as a student. Not sure when exactly, but after I did a few team projects from scratch and after getting a hang of object design by observing what our architects did.
I don't consider myself a junior and people ask me for advice but I'm not a senior either. I wonder how long will it take for me to consider myself senior. (When I do, I'll make horrible puns such as "I'm señor Developer". Can't wait :D)
My first job was as a freelancer while studying computer science. When I applied there, I was very confident not being a student trainee but a consultant with special knowledge in Delphi programming. My boss thought the other way around, so we met in the middle. And as it turned out, we were both right. During this job I learned a lot around programming in real projects. After finishing my studies I wanted to move on, and my boss offered me a good salary and to work for him off site. I rejected, because I wanted to work with other people in a real workplace. But I took away what I can claim when applying for a regular developer position.
The thing is: there is no real point when you turn from Junior to Senior. You always bring something valuable in to your next job, and hopefully you learn something valuable from it.
11 years experience. I'll let you know.
When I joined a social platform for developers and learned that they are all incompetent.
When I realized that the sum of human knowledge about programming exists on the web and can be accessed by my brain at any time.
On March 14 when I read this incredible article on Medium: Don't be a Junior Developer
Though I do stuffs, each time I look around and see new techs or languages/frameworks it rings in my head that I still don't know anything...dont know if that's a good feeling.
Don't know, probably when I've mastered something like a niche COBOL or K.
I still feel like a kid by the screen.
Excellent question. I have been wondering about the same thing!
Actually, I still think about myself as a junior developer.
I still haven't yet, but I'm still not quite a year into my first post college "big boy" job yet.
When senior developers started to ask me for help, I guess.
When code reviews stopped to mean that I receive a bunch of comments about dummy issues, but I started to educate through my comments.
It took me about 5 years. It took me that long to start trusting my technical intuitions and not being afraid of getting pushback and criticism.
When other people recognized me as a senior
Still, i haven't.... :(
Currently rethinking this self-designation.
What is exactly a junior developer?
Interesting post about it hackernoon.com/dont-be-a-junior-de...
The best seniors are those who retain the desire to learn as if they were juniors.
I must say refactoring code to make it look beautiful is my guilty pleasure