I genuinely believed that developers are more-less 50/50 in terms of male/female balance. But when I first discovered stateofjs.com website.
When I saw Gender Demographic graphic, I was shocked, stunned and shocked again.
After that I started to noticed this is actually true from hearing people I know discussing exactly this.
I don't understand how this is even possible, what do you think about it?
Personally, I feel like women themselves creating such issue by learning their daughters that they should be more "girlish" and software development is generally associated as a male job, thus almost no women takes this path as they should prefer more "girlish" jobs. I have never thought this way and I don't know a single male person that is against women in any kind of sense. That's why I think that's because of confirmation bias inherited from the time women were basically diminished.
Surveys
According to
In 2023 js is coded by 9/10 males, which is insane, this state is preserved over past years if you look back in the past.
In 2024 this tragic situation seems to be SLOWLY making its way to the balance, some countries now show 89% of male instead of 94% compared to previous year.
The salary seems to be also made its way to equal to men's even though 2023 shows underpayment, we should also take into account that surveys may be biased, so we can only see general picture without relying on it.
The more terrifying is that this is a worldwide problem. Even WW II impacted countries share the same problem, fyi it's abnormal since they lost millions lives, which created a huge gap in working force after war end. It lead to women basically being the main workforce, which eventually completely destroyed myth about women inability to work. So nowadays it's super normal to see both parents working in normal post-soviet family. That's why it's even more ridiculous for such countries to have this problem.
What do you think is going on here?
Top comments (55)
Well honestly this is probably a pretty loaded question when you think about how deep it goes, considering your mention of WWII...
So to keep my response short enough to count, it's many things, systematic oppression from the past, women still finding themselves in the modern day, Confirmation biases (as you said) perhaps lack of awareness...
For instance many women play video games but still not as many as men and that Contributes to the overall tech landscape.
Long story short:
We're still trying to figure it out.
There is little to connect people who enjoy Video Games to people who take a deep interest in all aspects of programming. For the most part, Video Games are a great diversion and social tool, but few people can say that they can make it a long term career. Of those women I have come across over the years in IT, almost all of them saw it as a stepping stone for management and few had interest in video games. It always seemed surprising when the one language the woman managers knew was Cobalt and had no interest in learning other programming languages. The other languages I came across women programmers was SQL and C#, but they did not appear to have a deeper interest in things like multithreading, error handling, or performance. That said, this is not something limited to women. Also, I know a woman programmer who codes in C#, and her interest is in Management and not continuing a career in coding. As a man, I do not profess to know how to influence a woman in becoming interested in something, but I am positive that playing Video Games is not the answer.
Well. With all due respect, you're referencing women you personally know
We are talking about the greater trend of less women then men in tech and specifically, programming I believe. With that being said, props to all those women you're referencing however, there is lots of connection between men, women and video games, there are Plenty of studies to show the links Bru to keep brief.
Man make computer, man make game on computer, man buys game on said computer, man wants to know how to make own game, boom lots of men trying to make games and other things.
Go to LinkedIn and there are Plenty of women in the industry just not as programmers.
Please, put links, by saying "I'm making it brief", you're just being lazy. Make it 10,000 words long, I think it's worth it if this will definitely prove your point.
I don't need to. Again, with all due respect this is a discussion #discussion to be exact and not a debate or any argument.
My point about video games and men wasn't nt meant to be taking as fact but as simple example of how things like early exposure, systematic oppression (as I said before) and men predominantly owning every professional field..
To make the picture clearer, while men were building computers and bombs for the government in the 30s 40s and 50s, women were fighting to get the right to vote, meanwhile slavery was already abolished and we were working through the Jim crowe laws.
This isn't a modern issue, it's a symptom of issues that have prevailed for hundreds if not thousands of years, and we've only had a handful of decades to work it out.
Which circles back to my point of us still trying to figure it out...
However I'd like to note, your response and dismissal of everything I said along with the lack of real engagement in the discussion simply because you want a 10,000 word dissertation on a matter entire institutions are still trying to figure out.
You just don't have ones. A debate is a subset of a discussion, google it. And tags for better targeting not saying, nor for "we just say and prove". I think this is complex and serious topic, you reply with all the formality. But when you make a statement and I'm asking you to provide references, you're rejecting.
It's hard and kinda pointless to read any of your answers for you rejected giving ANY links and you think you don't have to.
Well, clearly you're missing the point and holding me specifically to an unreasonable standard. If you reread all my comments, including the one I originally replied to, and connect the dots, you might see that I’m adding more known connections and context to the conversation than you thought.
That being said, if you’re focusing only on the specific points that reinforce your own perspective, then I’d encourage you to reflect on whether confirmation bias is influencing your take here, similar to how you mentioned it in your article.
Long story short, because I don’t write essays here as I've said multiple times by keeping things short in past comments, I think you’re missing the bigger picture, and, in my opinion, that’s part of the problem in bigger trends like this.
When you're ready to have a conversation and not a debate about it. Fine until then, good luck.
You're saying "you don't see a bigger picture" while stating "I won't write an essay", then how I'm supposed to see the bigger picture if you're not giving me the whole picture but rather piece by piece?
For me to realize I have a bias opinion I need to exhaust it first and as I want to see things from different angles I tend to behave like I'm the most biased person defending a position until it has no ground.
Learn how to read. Honestly. Because I said "You're failing to see the bigger picture. Not Me **Whatever attempt rage baiting or justifying your inability to conversate on a topic you asked for **Opinions on, Is baffling and I'd be highly embarrassed to act like the way you're acting isn't contributing to such issues like the one you've addressed in your I would assume less then 10,000 word post because again. Unfair standards, and you're unable to hit the majority of the points I'm acknowledging.
Your own comments say "don't twist my words. Don't do this, where's this." you're exactly the kind of person I expect to be contributing to such systemic problems, due to your lack of communication skills and clearly lack of ability to regurgitate anything you haven't already heard.
Wow-wow, ok, you win, I'm sorry for making you feel this way, I guess this is the problem of internet communication - we can't see each other faces.
It seems even WW II can't change something that existed for hundreds years... Would have we known Albert Einstein if he was a gay transgender female - I think not. Should be fixed.
sigh
Maybe those stats show a skewed view of the women in javascript? When I asked chatgtp it returned numbers of 25 to 30 procent women.
It is still low, but I think it is closer to reality.
Over the years I seen more and more women. And I don't see that trend stopping, because today women are more likely to graduate than men.
I haven't looked at the stats, but ChatGPT is not a reliable source of information like this. Its responses are based on articles it's been fed, not on their veracity.
It gives the stack overflow developer surveys, the github octoverse report and slashdata developer economics reports as sources. It is possible it didn't get the numbers from the reports.
I'm not saying that is the most accurate data, but the number feels more realistic based on my experience going to tech conferences.
I also know women who are project managers or do Q&A, and code in their free time. They are not going to identify themselves as developer, but they are in my opinion.
That is why I think only 10 procent women who code is too low of a number.
So why you're referencing ChatGPT instead of reliable sources? Perhaps mentioning those surveys directly would've been more realistic, no? I know I mentioned only stateofjs, but they have 11,000 respondents, and as per internet, it's very much legitimate amount.
I don't think surveys are a reliable source. They are an indication. A real metric would be employment records based on gender and job description. But they are not public.
You experienced less women were you work, and I have no doubt about your experience.
I just have a different experience, and I hope you have no doubt about my experience?
I have never been to a js only conference, so I don't know if there are more or less women than at the tech conferences I visited. I've been to Microsoft conferences, PHP conferences and multi language conferences. I think i can say that I have seen different groups of developers.
I hope were you are, and in other places that are in the same situation, that evolution happens too.
My point is more that even if ChatGPT says its source is the SO developer survey, that in no way indicates that it has taken its info from the SO developer survey.
More likely it has taken the info from a random popular headline somewhere over the last few years and treats the second part - "where did you get that info?" as a prompt to return somewhere popular for getting info.
LLMs are not any kind of source of truth. They happen to be useful for some things, but not this.
Yes, I'm using the "unreliable" source to indicate the male/female gap. Yeah, sure, that's a better sentence...
We all have different experiences, but it doesn't make anyone more right just because of experience. But it's a good way to see something from different angles.
It doesn't tell anything about the male/female gap. I've seen many different groups of people working in supermarkets - does this make any point about a thing?
About the indication. It is not a remark about the gender gap but about surveys. That is why I provided an example of a metric that is more reliable.
Please don't twist my words.
I agree different experiences don't make one more right than the other, they are about different perspectives.
Different programming languages attract different people. And with those different groups I saw the numbers of women growing. So the point I was making is that the gap is getting smaller.
Sorry.
I agree.
Unfortunately, it's not good even at showing you the sources. I remember trying to find a range of something, but then I decided to validate the results and discovered that the range was totally off. So DON'T TRUST ChatGPT, it's good for improving grammar, finding synonyms and receiving general knowledge not for any kind of numbers nor stats.
I think JS shows it correctly since this is the most accessible and popular nowadays. I agree the trend is going on and I don't think it will stop until the imbalance is fixed.
But 5% of women for JS is true also by my experience - I have NEVER had a female colleague neither interviewed or talked to (basically 0% but I believe I wasn't so lucky).
Honestly I feel a bit stupid for serious coding: I can do the basic things, but thats too hard to make real and detailed decisions, my greatest problem is making apps look well on devices with various dimensions and proportions(((
So I have to ask guys for help. So sad they never have time...
I think that guys also have a less competency in that question.
My sort answer for responsivity ( HTML/CSS ) is to use a responsive metric to elements:
rem, vw, vh, %, vmin, vmax.
Start using tailwind next of CSS.
Don't spend time to setup own fonts, and colors.
Don't use any UI library, just pure HTML/Tailwind/CSS
Play with a different aspect ratio.
For a perfect responsivity setting need to be decide how will beheviour our app on a different aspect ration.
A longer answer can be found in my code: dev.to/pengeszikra/javascript-grea...
Have you considered using AI assistance? I've been using DeepSeek lately for that exactly issue and it's been amazing to learn from it
Hmm, need to try it, my friends programmers do already use it) But I really doubt how can it help me if i got a very specific problem on various devices, where not only code but straight hands are also required)))
You just need to learn prompt engineering but DeepSeek can give responses to human-based language
You just need to learn prompt engineering but DeepSeek can give responses to human-based languages
Don't think that's only up to females, basically that's how every beginner feels like.
Yep, I do agree. But sometimes i fall into "im just a girl I can't defeat this" feeling : ((( Just my personal feeling.
:(
@verypinkshark i only have one question for you. Why you step in this field? You can become a doctor or teacher than why you choose this?
There must be a good reason for that. There is nothing that you cant do. You just have lack of confidence🙂.
If you see conditions of india, in urban places many girls do jobs. There parents does not stop them for jobs in todays time. Only a few parents who have different thinking.
But the girls themself dont have intrest in computers. Especially the girls dont have intrest in science and maths and computers. Many girls take science bio but not maths. For example if there is a class in engineering college with 20 students only 3 or 4 girls will be there.
Like i am the only one intrested in coding in my class but other girls are not.
Yep, exactly the same thing here in Russia, basically girls have no interest in tech jobs and there is a strong imbalance in boys/girls students ratio.
It’s pretty clear that fewer girls choose engineering, and honestly, it’s not surprising. Society, expectations, and a lack of role models play a huge role, just like in math—where many girls, despite having the ability, don’t pursue it further. The tech world is just a reflection of that. But hey, I probably just triggered a lot of people by saying this.
Historically, teams of women were used to calculate astronomy data. They were given the job title "computers". Early NASA mainframes were run and maintained by teams of women. And of course, there's pioneers such as Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper.
I suspect the turning point came in the late 1970s and early 1980s - home computers were somehow classified as "boy's toys". This wouldn't have been too much of a problem but computer programming courses almost always assumed you already understood computers before you joined (and had access to one outside of the classroom). This effectively prevented girls from developing those skills.
In my professional career, I've found that female developers have been significantly more talented than their male peers. This isn't favouritism - I suspect the reason is that all but the most determined developers manage to clear the hurdles which every step of the process puts in their way.
I have no idea how to solve this problem but I try and remain aware of my own bias and create an atmosphere at work which is welcoming to all.
Well said, probably this is yet another thing to contribute to that. However, you're likely referring to how it was in the USA, what about other countries, I won't believe it was this way in ALL countries at THE SAME time.
There is another side of it - designers, mostly I see that it's taken primarily by girls, and usually I don't have a nice discussion about design improvements, they usually don't accept any suggestions. However, I don't remember a single boy I was working with that would strictly say no to things I suggested.
This is obviously personal exp., so it may be a different story, but I feel like it's somehow alike.
Interesting clarification and good point about the difference in home computing between the US and the rest of the world. I was speaking from personal experience in the UK where bedroom coding on 8-bit computers exploded in the 1980s and felt very gendered in the way the products were marketed. But I'm ignorant of how it was in other cultures. I know that in Russia, there was a huge hacking scene on ZX Spectrum clones in the 1990s but I've no clue about the gender differences. The Soviet Union was, at least ideologically, in favour of gender equality but this didn't seem to have much impact in women rising to the top in some fields.
Thank you
Its a culture, education and discrimination for oportunities and space. A ssocial structure. The male chauvinism. Our empowerment to do what we want an validation in society is low a lot of fear. And because there are CEO of bigtechs in 2025 saing that need more "masculine energy" in the companies .... no more words about it.
I don’t think this is some kind of deep conspiracy or women avoiding coding on purpose. It’s just how society shaped career paths over decades. Coding wasn’t a "guy thing" until marketing in the 80s made it one. It’ll take time to balance it out.
You're probably referring to the USA case, what about other countries? Why it was this way all of them and trend started to appear only these years?
It's always funny when people act shocked about the gender gap in tech, as if it just happened out of nowhere. The truth is, women were some of the first programmers—back when coding wasn’t seen as a high-status job. Then, once it became lucrative, the narrative suddenly changed.
The idea that women just ‘choose’ not to code because they’re told to be more ‘girly’ doesn’t really hold up. If that were true, how do we explain the fact that women dominate medicine, law, and science in many countries? Maybe the real question isn’t why women aren’t coding, but why tech culture still makes it harder for them to stay...
Maybe, do you have any evidence of IT companies making it's harder for women? I want to see how it looks like since I'm not one, thus this must be a reason why I haven't never seen anything this way.
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