This discussion is mainly for women in tech careers. Have you ever faced discrimination at any stage in your tech studies or career due to your gender? Or has any other woman that you know ever faced such issues? I will share some discrimination that I faced:
- A guy who was my teammate in a college project said to the teacher "Yes, we will finish the project ma'am". The project was for a hackathon and the hackathon had a rule that each team should have at least one female in it. So our team had three females and three males because the teacher had suggested the guy who formed the team to have equal number of girls. Now this guy when he said we will finish the project, he meant himself and the other two guys. He made that clear. He said that me and the other girls were not going to code and we did not because he never let us do anything, in fact the other two guys also did not do anything. But he made it look like only girls cannot do anything. Btw, this guy never got a tech job after college even though we studied computer science. He is in sales now.
- Next, a guy always tried to undermine any work that I did, any code that I wrote, he never used my code even if he was working on a module where he could use my code, he just wrote everything from scratch, he behaved like anything that he wrote was priceless and any code that I wrote was shit. He disrespected me but buttered people who were higher in the hierarchy. So he cannot respect people who are equal to him but he wants to butter people who are higher than him who were men mostly. How unethical.
- Then, a girl always tried to undermine my work, if she was blamed for something, she would put the blame on me. But this bad politics did a lot of good for her and a lot of bad for me, but never mind, karma comes back eventually. She did not treat men like this and even she treated some women nicely but she particularly disliked me even though I absolutely did nothing to her.
- Another girl bullied everyone that she disliked including me. Bullying included laughing at people's code, talking over people in calls, never letting other people speak, body shaming, etc. She did this only to women and not men.
Actually there are many incidents and instances but I want to keep the post light. I welcome you to share any discrimination that you faced as a woman. If you are a man, you can also share your experiences if any.
Top comments (103)
Unfortunately, I have a long list of micro-aggressions (comments and jokes that are just not it) and discrimination (actions that negatively impacted my career) as a woman in tech. Things are a lot better where I'm at now, thankfully.
Started a job. On my first day: "Well now that a woman works here, someone will take care of our office plants." I am not a plant caretaker or office facilitator, I'm a developer. And I've killed every plant I ever owned at home.
Introduced as "our programmeuse" when I'm just here trying to do my job as a dev, please stop singling me out for my gender.
"Good morning ladies!" (to the whole team) "Ah ladies is a denigrating introduction, haha." Why exactly?
"Now that (other female colleague) doesn't work here anymore, I guess Daniëlle will take care of the dirty dishes." "We should put all the mugs on her desk!" As a principle I refuse to clean up after male colleagues who are too lazy to even open up a dishwasher and put their mug inside, or empty out the dishwasher. (Unless that is a task evenly distributed amongst genders.) I was trying to solve a really complex problem at the time too, so this idea that my time would be better spent cleaning up after men had me infuriated. I spoke up about it, and that may have contributed to my contract not getting renewed.
"I can't see you in a leadership position, you just don't have... the natural dominance it takes." "And why is that?" "Well, you know."
After I applied for a job somewhere: "Our team doesn't think you'll fit in as a female developer since we have a real bro culture and you would probably not feel at ease here." (This is discrimination per the Dutch constitution and I seriously considered filing a report; however I didn't because I was afraid I would get a bad reputation as a 'troublesome woman' in the Dutch dev community.) (The company went bankrupt a year later, what a shame.......)
A manager casually joking about sexually harassing female Jehovah's Witnesses that came to his door. In this case at least, literally everyone else at the table was also super uncomfortable.
Being repeatedly asked if a position as project manager, doing something more 'social' or 'soft' wouldn't be better for my natural female talents. FFS?
"Discrimination doesn't exist. The word itself just means 'discerning a difference' anyway." Guess we'll throw out over a hundred years of studies on the mistreatment of marginalized groups, you're so right dude.
And of course the: says something in a meeting -nobody notices- a man repeats it -people applaud his idea, joke, or comment* Countless times.
Like I said, things are a bit better nowadays. It seems there is a lot more awareness even among male devs that a lot of these behaviours are not cool. Unfortunately a lot of these also come from managers that probably grew up in a 'bro culture' or fraternity kind of environment, and it's much more challenging when the person giving you this kind of crap is also your superior.
A lot of companies these days invest their time and effort into setting up a Code of Conduct and even having a DE&I team to create awareness and take a stand. At my current job I took the initiative to do exactly that. It's honestly been great to work somewhere I don't have to deal with the BS I had early in my career.
Wow, I feel this - thank you for sharing. I know you label these micro-aggressions but reading them feels like "micro-aggression" doesn't give it the importance it deserves. It's inspiring that you took the initiative to create DE&I programs at your company!!
That's terrible and I'm sorry that happened to you
i am sorry you had to go through these and thanks for sharing!
My wife and I left a company because of moral harassment and discrimination.
I don't want to give detail here, but anyway.
I have a few advices to give if you think you suffer from discrimination:
I think some won't like what I will say, but learn to sort things out. Don't hide behind your gender to explain everything. Being ignored when proposing an idea, or being refused a leadership position also happen to men. That's called lack of charisma, not discrimination. If you fight against the wrong enemy, you will lose the important battles.
You said:
I disagree. For me, if I were refused a leadership position, it wouldn't be related to my gender -- it'd be related to my lack of leadership ability alone.
On the other hand, a woman who commented above said she was asked if "doing something more 'social' or 'soft' wouldn't be better" for her "natural female talents."
While charisma does play a role @blunket, I'd be very careful to say a woman not getting a role is only due to her "lack of charisma". Women being refused a leadership position due to their gender is a common phenomenon([the Pew Research Center shows this])(pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/0...), so work does need to be done in that regard.
@cbid2 I was not saying anything about that myself. I meant to quote-reply to that part of the comment above. I firmly disagree with the quoted text.
Sorry about this misunderstanding. I just edited my comment to try and be clearer.
yes!
Ahh thanks for clarifying @blunket. Yes, your comment is much clearer now! :)
thanks for your insights!
Discrimination? Personally, no, at least not while looking for work. I think become a woman has actually helped in that I stood out in certain jobs I applied to for being female (in the past 8-9 years). At least in the initial application stage. But I've always felt a bit of a complex about this, and make it a point to prove early on that I'm also a good developer and I'm not just going to look like i was hired for being a mediocre female dev.
As far as like sexism is concerned, one of the first places I worked was a scrappy startup and I was very junior at the time. Their CEO was very kind and meant well but the group clearly wasn't used to having a woman around and it showed - sexist comments were common (amongst themselves for the most part, it was more like they spoke and acted as if they would in a locker room or something). So nevertheless I left after a couple weeks. I probably could have made a big thing of it, or mentioned to them that if they want to diversify their team they should act a bit more professional, but to be honest I just knew it wasn't going to be a good fit and took a different role.
thanks for sharing!
It is really difficult.
We have to study harder, work better and keep showing our value, and still, in the end of the day, there still will be people who will think we are not meant to work in the area.
I recommend you to find like minded women, it is good to have people who you can talk to and understand your pain
thanks for your advice, it is very helpful!
That sucks, Nandini, I am sorry for you.
We still have a long way to go until we can see each others as humans and celebrate our diversity. It hurts even more when other women treat us badly, because we naturally think of them as allies. Unfortunately, the current structures are supporting competition, not collaboration. We can easily fall into the trap of seeing other women as our direct competitors rather than allies, because of the "trophy women programmer role".
What Iearned through my career is that you generally have two choices:
Please don't give up, I know it's hard but we need you to help make it better for the next generations.
thanks for your advice!
I was working on an project at a customer facility (major US defense contractor), porting some code to run on newer hardware. It was me and a few guys from a third company working together. The customer lead was an over the top misogynist. He repeatedly tried to trick me into walking in front of an infrared camera (you could see through clothes), made constant sexual jokes and direct comments to and about me. At one point, he put his hand in the chair I was about to sit in. It was daily for about 3 months. I told my company about it, but they didn't want to risk a huge contract. I was a single parent and didn't want to risk losing my job.
At another job where I was running the engineering department of a design and manufacturing facility, I was told by a female friend from a different department that one of the guys I managed was telling everybody I was a lesbian and making jokes about it. I was not in a relationship (no conjecture could be made) and had not discussed my sexuality. I hauled him into my office and scared the hell out of him. He knew I could have gotten him fired. I made him squirm and gravel. I would definitely handle it differently today, but at the time, there was some satisfaction in it. I quit not long after that.
Too many microaggressions to list and I see many of them already called out by others.
I'm sorry for the difficult times that you faced, I hope your path is smoother in the future!
I'm sorry you've gone through all this. I grew up programming as a hobby my whole childhood, and then landed a job when I was 19 after being self-taught my whole life prior to that. There were only two other programmers there at my first job. One of them was a woman.
The other one was a man, and he undermined everything she did and ignored all of her advice and her input constantly. Yet, he was the one causing problems all the time for her to fix, whereas she was great at her job. Fortunately justice was served and he was let go about 2 months after I started there. I kind of think I was hired to replace him.
In my first 6 months at that job, I learned more from that woman than I'd ever taught myself before that point. So in a sense, I attribute almost my entire foundations in programming to a woman. I've never worked with another woman in tech since then. She worked there for 13 years but has since switched careers entirely. She was so good at her job, and yet she didn't even seem to like programming very much, and she was sick of feeling the exact harassment and discrimination you're talking about too.
I do know several other women who have tried to get into tech but who have given up, oftentimes because they think they're "not smart enough." Sometimes they also cite discrimination as a reason too. Makes me really upset.
thanks for sharing this, it is very insightful!
There is undoubtedly discrimination in the workplace, and it's a multifaceted issue. A significant part of this stems from the inevitable complexities of human interaction, especially in professional settings. Many individuals carry the impacts of childhood trauma into their adult lives, which can sometimes manifest as problematic behaviors in the workplace. This creates a challenging environment for their colleagues.
One of the core issues is the lack of effective intervention. Employees are often left to navigate these difficult dynamics without adequate support. Managers frequently either overlook or are ill-equipped to address these behaviors effectively. This is compounded by the fact that many companies lack robust systems for managing such issues.
Providing access to resources like therapy could be a step in the right direction. It would not only support those struggling with past traumas but also create a healthier, more understanding work environment for everyone. However, this is just one piece of a larger puzzle. Organizations need to develop comprehensive strategies to tackle discrimination, which includes training, awareness, and strong policies that are actively enforced.
It's crucial for companies to recognize and address these challenges head-on, fostering a culture where all employees feel valued, respected, and supported.
This is definitely one of the hard lessons I had to realize growing up.
I really hated those who treated me unfairly but as I grew older I just ended up feeling sorry for them and whatever experiences may have shaped them. With that being said, it's definitely important to reach out to someone you trust to report behaviour like this.
One of my regrets is not doing that earlier.
thanks for sharing!
yes, so true!
Thanks for posting about this topic @nandinishinduja! :) This is a conversation that needs to continue. During International Women's Month, I wrote a discussion post on Dev.to where I question and express my frustration in the lack of visibility that womxn-owned/maintained open source projects
Where are all the womxn-owned open source projects?
Christine Belzie ・ Mar 17 '23
I am sorry about what that person commented, he is obviously wrong. Thanks for sharing this!
Yes, that's true for men as well. Working in a team can be challenging when someone lacks common sense in their communication. 😓
I am very sorry to hear that. Sadly, a lot of people in tech seem to be overgrown children. Sharing stories like yours is the first step in the right direction. Thank you for that and stay strong.
thanks!
I have encountered more impressive and excellent female programmers than male programmers in my career.
You shouldn't be troubled by the ignorance of others.
I'm not troubled by the ignorance of others, I'm troubled by their ill-treatment towards me.
I don't know how much butthurt and fragility I've encountered from men who are more experienced than me.
It's an exhausting and weird price to pay for becoming more or less competent after being on many chopping blocks.
Got no time to waste 🗑️
I did not understand what you are saying, could you tell it in a simpler way please?
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